Cole Wadsworth - Part 1

In part one of this two-part episode, I sit down with Cole Wadsworth, one of the most unique and physical improvisers in Atlanta. Cole's energy is unlike anything you've ever seen on stage, and this conversation is just as unpredictable and joyful as his performances.

Cole shares how iIt started with a poetry slam where he was too nervous to read his own poem, and spiraled into auditioning for a college improv troupe as a gag, falling in love with it, and then taking acting classes just to become a better improviser. We talk about how his background as a football player shaped his approach to the stage, from the punt returner mentality of catching the ball and going forward to his belief that every performer should give a hundred percent every single time they step on stage.

We get into Cole's early days in Atlanta, meeting his best friend Hannah at a Dad's Garage class, going to jams four times a week during the first jam explosion, and years of losing cage matches that forged him into the improviser he is today. Cole opens up about Tommy Futch's impact on his confidence, why he believes knowledge raises your floor but not your ceiling, and his philosophy that improvisers should stop trying to be funny and start trying to be interesting.

There are also some deeply personal moments in this episode. Cole and I both share stories about our character arcs growing up, from jock culture and bullying to finding our way to kindness and creativity. Cole talks about his moral convictions as a vegan, and I make a commitment on the spot to consume less meat. We also both open up about past mistakes we carry shame about and how improv has helped us become better people.

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Host: Joel Camargo - Insta - @joelc1225
Audio Editor: Matt Issacs - Insta - @mattisaacs20

Transcript

Introduction

Joel 0:03

Hello everybody and welcome back to the Joy of Improv Podcast. Today's guest is the incredible Cole Wadsworth. If you've seen Cole play before, I'm sure you've noticed that his playstyle is unlike anything you've ever seen. It is so connecting, so physical, so out of this world. It is incredible the things that Cole can do on stage. Watching how his brain works is so beautiful. I'm excited for you to hear about Cole's journey to improv, and as Cole would say it, that he found it accidentally. We talk about the correlations between sports and improv and how Cole processes that athletic and sports mindset and how he brings that with him to the stage. This episode is full, full, full of beautiful improv insights and advice. But not just that, there are also such great moments that give insights to Cole's personal life and my personal life that I'm really excited to share with you all in Atlanta and the world. So sit tight and enjoy this episode of the Joy of Improv Podcast with Cole Wadsworth. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the Joy of Improv Podcast. I'm going. This is the start. Cole's been cracking me up. I'm here with Cole Wadsworth, y'all. I've been trying to start this episode for five minutes. And we just keep cracking it up. Um, this is it. This is the start of it. I'm not doing that again. You did a good job. Do it real quick. One more time. Go. No, I can't. I got you. No, okay. Cole.

Meet Cole Wadsworth

Cole 1:51

We gotta start the podcast. I'll do it. Okay. Five. Do it. Four, three, two, one. Hey everybody, and welcome to another episode of The Joy of Improv with Joel and Cole. That was really good.

Joel 2:05

Thanks. Okay, so here we are. Oh, okay. Catching my breath from laughing. I'm sweating. I'm crying. Um, everyone, you're in for a treat. Um, you're in for such a treat because right here on my couch is Cole Wadsworth. Cole is an amazing improviser that you probably know of or have seen play already. But what we're gonna do today is we're gonna learn about Cole's background and how he found improv. Cole, you want to say hi?

Cole 2:34

Hi, everybody. My name's Cole Wadsworth. It is true. I am on a couch right now.

Joel 2:42

Oh man. Well, we're in for it, y'all. We're in for it. Um doing a handstand. He's not. Oh, now he is. What the hell, Cole? How did you do that? Um, Cole, can you tell us, the people of Atlanta and the world, how you found improv?

How Cole Found Improv Accidentally Through Poetry Slams

Cole 3:02

Yeah. I uh had an unusual route to improv, which I kind of I guess I assume everybody did. I don't think anyone was like in unusual route. My father and mother were improvisers, and their fathers and mothers were improvisers. I think most people accidentally find improv.

Joel 3:19

I don't know. What I'm discovering with multiple interviews and interviews that I've been listening to, you can drink your coffee if you want. Gold reached for his coffee, but was scared about the noise feedback. Look, listen, yeah, that's him putting his coffee cup there. Yeah, that little thump. Yep. Um, but what I'm learning is that so many people have found it in high school and college. There's like improv programs in their schools.

Cole 3:45

Absolutely insane.

Joel 3:46

Yeah, so many people have had that. Um, so those feel traditional when it's like a class that's offered or an extracurricular program.

Cole 3:54

Yeah, 100%.

Joel 3:56

Yeah. So I think it's a mix. All that to say that, you know, maybe your path is different, but like some people's path, they find it early. Yeah.

Cole 4:05

Wow. I uh mine, uh, I was a jock. I was a real sport boy all my youth. And then in college, I uh I got really big into poetry and I started doing um poetry pretty aggressively. Like I was like going to poetry slams and not doing them. I was too scared because I was watching them. Yeah. But in advanced poetry in college, uh, to graduate, you had to go to a poetry slam and you had to read your poem. Not to graduate, but for one of the finals, you know. So it was really important. And I went there and I got on stage with a poem that I thought this is a banger. This is probably my best poem to date. And then I got too scared and I forgot it. And then I oh, you had to memorize it? You didn't you couldn't have it on a paper or something? You did you did have you could have it on a paper, and I did have it on a paper. Okay, but I was trying to do it without. I got too scared, and then I was like, I I don't remember my poem. So I reach in my pocket, hands quivering. I pull it out, I unfold it, and I'm shaking too hard that I can't read it. The words are blurry. I'm just like up there and I'm nervous. I just like read three of the lines that I can. Hands are sweaty, eating spaghetti, vomit on his spaghetti.

Joel 5:27

Vomit on his arms already. His arms.

Cole 5:32

Man, so you're shaking. Yeah. Uh fuck. Like four different uh rap lyrics went to my head just now. One of them is Who Let the Dogs Out, but that's not different, different song. Different song. Is that rap? That's not Oh, how dare you! How dare you is insult the Baja men like that. Okay. Was it the Baha Men? Okay. Yeah, got it. Nice.

Joel 5:58

Uh shaking, reading the poem. It was too, it was too blurry.

Cole 6:02

Yeah, I'm sick. I'm sick to my stomach. I'm like viscerally sick when I sit down. And the judges, there's three judges, they thought that that was so provocative, they put me through to the second round. What? And I gotta do that shit again with a different poem. So I get I'm like, I have my other poem in my pocket, but I know the same shit's gonna happen. And it did. And I got up, I was too scared. I'm like, I'm like about to vomit on stage. All these people in there, and I'm like, fuck this. I have to get over this, I have to be like, I can't. And my buddy's like, two weeks later, my buddy's like, hey man, I'm gonna go audition for the improv troupe. Uh, do you want to come with? And I'm like, yeah, I'll go as a gag, you know, whatever. I'm a jock. But I get there, and uh, the person running it uh is Meg, who's someone that ends up staying in my life for like a long time. She goes, Anybody else want to audition? And I'm like, all right, cool, yeah. Uh I'll do it as again, as a gag. Who cares? I get up, I fucking love it immediately. This shit is so fun, so interesting, so engaging. And then I'm like, I gotta get better at this shit. How do I get better at this shit? I learn how to act because I wasn't like, I'm not like an actor. I I play football and then I take an acting class and I'm like, fuck, acting's fun. I audition for a play, I get the lead. I'm like, fuck, acting is so fun. How do I get better at acting? Oh, yeah, I take this in class, I take this class, and I just like spiraled into improv and it became the thing that I enjoy doing the

From Football to Acting to Improv

Cole 7:46

most.

Joel 7:46

Yeah, so you kept taking acting classes to get better at improv.

Cole 7:50

Yeah, I'm the only reason I am at all uh good at acting is because I want to be a better improviser.

Joel 8:00

Yeah, I see that. Just grab your coffee, just do it. You didn't hear it? Because I was providing a verbal cover for you.

Cole 8:10

The audience didn't hear it.

Joel 8:13

Um yeah, good. My god, the full slurp. Okay, cool. Matt have you taken acting classes? I haven't. I haven't taken acting classes. That's something I've been thinking about a lot. I think uh I have some acting books, but I I've been wanting to take an acting class to to to also route get some skills, some acting skills under my belt for that too. Same reason to improve my improv.

New Life Experiences Make You a Better Improviser

Cole 8:47

Yeah, yeah. If anything, too, I I've found that like doing things that you just haven't done, period, help your improv. Every like new experience, just life experiences, yeah. Yeah, just I I've never done that before. And then I have after having done it, you are now a better improviser for just doing a thing. The textile that tactile, the tactile nature of living, you know, when you touch things and then you go on into improv and you're like making up a random thing.

Joel 9:20

Now you have more access to more and you have more honest access to oh yeah, right? Because there's an infinite choice of things to do and play and become on when you're doing improv. Um, but when you're living life and having uh experiences, places, whatever adventures you're going on in life, you can pull from that stuff honestly on stage. Yeah, yeah.

Cole 9:45

Absolutely. I think um when you when you want to take a class, an acting class, I have I only have one recommendation for you. Yeah, all right. Are you on it right now? I'm I'm gonna write it down, yeah. Yeah, okay. It's it's through the alliance, and it's called Get the Fuck Out of Your Head. But it might be just get out of your head, depending on how um PG they feel like being any given year. Okay. Look it up. Okay, good. Who's got a viewpoint? Oh, viewpoints. You love viewpoints. It's Ileana and Clayton. Cool. Ileana? Yeah, you yeah, you uh just look it up. I'm sure you I'm sure you've met maybe even both of them in the community. Okay.

Joel 10:30

Um, so you auditioned, fell in love with it, took acting classes, you're leveling up your your acting and improv skills, and then how did you so you're still in college at this point, or this is after college?

Moving to Atlanta and Taking Classes at Dad's Garage

Cole 10:42

Oh yeah. Uh I'm still in college. Okay. I had I get on the team and um You auditioned as a gag, got on the team. Everyone got on the team, George. Oh, I didn't know that. Actually, wait, no, there were two people that didn't get on the team. Yeah. But there was only like five in the audition, and it was a brand new thing. Okay. They're like, we're starting this right now, you know. Um, and the people that were starting it, uh, they were just one year above us, you know. So it was like sophomores, maybe juniors, I think it was sophomores, sophomores at like auditioning people. And so it was just young people who had done improv in high school teaching college people to do improv with no other guidance and an instructor. Yeah. And we weren't using books, we weren't being like, oh yeah, let's read this improv book. It was just these people, you know. Luckily, they they had some like foundational like knowledge and they were like pretty decent for you know that era. And I, and starting on day one, I developed my disgust of people teaching improv.

Meeting Hannah: Best Friends from Day One

Joel 11:53

Day one. Day one. What do you mean, disgust of people teaching improv?

Cole 11:58

I didn't like it immediately. I didn't like it. It felt it I didn't know anything about improv. But the second someone started telling me, like, here is the door that you need to walk through to enter into the world of improv, I immediately started looking around. I'm like, there's a window right there, there's the fucking chimney right there. What are you talking about? This is the door. What do you mean this is the one, like, what do you mean?

Joel 12:25

Oh, I see. You're talking about the the way someone's telling you to follow certain rules of how to improv right or yeah. Yeah, okay, I gotcha. I gotcha.

Cole 12:33

Yeah, immediately, immediately. And now I've I've kind of like stepped away from my need to be so anti that kind of stuff, because there's value in information and the rules of improv, um, or even guidelines, uh however people want to describe it, you know, are just tools in a tool belt. So I totally value it. Yeah, tools and a tool belt. Yep. But even then, I was like, I don't like this. Yeah. And I started getting putting my sports into it because sports and improv don't cross enough, right? Sports is about full commitment, absolute dedication. When you are when you're on the field, you're on the field until you're off the field. There's no difference, you know? And in improv, I think so many people just kind of are like really like casual about it. Yep. But for me, the second I step on a stage, I'm on the field. And I'm you're you're getting me at a fucking hundred percent. Every single thing you've ever seen me do, I was trying my hardest. I've never been on a stage and been like, whatever. I'm giving it everything I have. And then when I'm off the stage, then I'm like, whatever, you know, like who cares if I did a good job or not? On the stage, I was I was trying really hard. So if I did a bad

The Sports Mindset on Stage

Cole 13:51

job.

Joel 13:51

That's fascinating. I just fucked up. Uh okay. But what what about before performing? Do you have that nonchalant, I don't care if I do well or not?

Cole 14:03

No. What do you mean non-performing?

Joel 14:05

Well, because after after you perform, then you say, Oh, well, I don't care if that was good or bad. Doesn't matter, that doesn't matter. How do you feel before a show?

Pre-Show Nerves and Giving Your All

Cole 14:13

Oh, super nervous. Okay. Yeah, super.

Joel 14:19

Okay, we're laughing. I'm gonna tell everybody because the cat's out of the bag. I we're laughing because I winked at Cole because we had this. We're about to get into a conversation we had before we started recording, and we were like, shit, we should have recorded that because that was good, but just okay, no.

Cole 14:41

I took everything I had in me not to just like say something else, not to just be a punk right there. Yeah, okay, cool. Yeah, totally. But you know, and but I think it it it's so paramount to who I am that it behooves repeating. But yeah, before every single time I go on stage, you're nervous. I'm nervous, my heart is racing. I'm like, I I have like those that like that feeling of of like uh like oh my god, what I'm about to do is is so big, it's so pivotal.

Joel 15:22

And you feel this like today, you feel this like when you perform now in the present.

Cole 15:26

Yeah, I felt that I felt it before we started doing this podcast, you know. I there's that and but I think that comes from what like what I was saying, where it's like if you are really gonna give yourself fully to a thing, if you're gonna say, what I'm about to show you is literally the best that I can do in this one moment, I'm not I'm not casual about this, I'm giving you every single thing that I have right now, then that's a real judgment on you at the end. You know, like that is what I was capable of, you know. So if if it doesn't amount to a lot, then I have to be okay with the fact that my best in that moment wasn't a lot, you know, as opposed to the the safety net of me being very casual about a thing, saying like, oh yeah, but I didn't really care, you know. Like, imagine if I did care how good I could have done, you know. That's just not my style.

Full Commitment

Joel 16:21

That's fascinating. Every time you hit the stage, you're you're you're you're nervous before, and then you're on stage giving you're all committed. Yes.

Cole 16:37

So you're still you're still in college and you had a movie moment. I'm in college. I have a movie moment. I am doing this play. It's actually a really powerful piece. Uh in Colorado, there's a lot of uh immigration. There's a lot of immigrants because it's a farm, it's a farm state. You know, there's there's uh a lot of like opportunities for workers to come and work without needing, you know, documentation. And so a lot of immigration happens in Colorado. And I had a drama professor that was um really uh motivated to bring these families to light. Uh, and this was during a time where um, you know, uh, I think, yeah, this is at the time where like Trump was vying for like the presidency under the guise of I want to build a big wall, you know. I want to build this wall. And so this drama professor was like, I have to show people that the people that they're keeping out are hardworking and important members of the community, you know, like these people that we're trying to like get away. Uh and so I was part of this play, and we were gonna like travel, we were gonna go around to different places and put on this play, which was really provocative about immigration, telling the stories of these immigrants. And I learned Ariel silks for it. I did all these things, and it was so amazing. But the first like the opening day was also the homecoming football game. And I was like, fuck. This is oh my gosh. I go to my coach, go to the head coach, and this is a movie moment. Holy shit. Yeah. I go into his office, I knock on the door, I go into his office. Let's do it. Yeah.

Joel 18:30

What are you doing here, Cole?

Cole 18:36

Is that your coach's voice? Yeah, my coach is American Jason Staphan. What are you doing here, Cole? You got a bomb.

Joel 18:54

That was real, that was Jason Statham, that was really good.

Cole 18:58

Uh I tell him, and yeah, I'm like, hey coach, uh the homecoming game. I am in a play. And they knew because believe it or not, the once I after the very first play that I did, the most people that were in the audience on opening night, every single night, was the football team. We sold out tickets like crazy because the football team, so much of the football team would come to the play on opening night every time. But I come to him and I'm just like, hey coach, uh, I got this play, it's really important to me. Um, but it's on homecoming, you know. Blah blah blah. And he goes, Well, Wads, Wads is what they're they call me. Well, Wads, what are you gonna be after college? Are you gonna be a football player? Or are you gonna be an actor? And I was like, probably an actor. And he goes, Well, there's your answer. And I just like smile and I'm like, oh thanks, coach. And I walk out the door, thinking like, what the f that's not how it goes. No, that's not how it goes. He's supposed to say, No, you gotta be there, and then I struggle in the locker room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm in my football clothes and I run from the the game. Yeah. You know, because the understudy like gets hit by a car or something, and he's in, you know, like crutches and he's like, I can't go on either. So then I gotta go, you know. But that's not how it played out. Coach is super supportive. I do this play, and it leads me down like a spiral of really provocative, interesting performance.

Joel 20:37

Wow, beautiful. I'm so cool. It sounds like you had a very supportive um football team. I mean, they all came out to support your your plays and on opening nights, and your coach is like, yeah, go do that. That's that's like I feel like that's a unique experience. Um I mean, I had the cliche experience also being a jock in high school and trying to do um musical theater in high school, and man, those lives were did not mesh well. What was your sport? Basketball. Were you good? Could you pop a basketball in high school? I don't know if that's a good metric for being good at basketball. Good at basketball. Um it is a step though. It is a step, it is a step. Um was I good? I would just say like I'm always above average, I think. Uh I went to a small school also. I went to a very small high school. So like even at 6'2, you look like you have a thought. You want to interject? God damn it. You interjected to burp? Fuck, man. I feel like we have to keep that one in because it's so connected to the to the post I was giving you the edit eyes. I was giving the eyes the edit eyes, dude.

Cole 21:56

Okay, okay. You're okay, you're um Playing basketball, you can palm a basketball. The coach is like, We gotta get you in the center guard.

Joel 22:05

We gotta get you center guard. That's not what I was saying, Cole. You asked me a question. You said if I was good at basketball. Yeah. And you played center guard? Above average. I played center. I just played center because I was six. I was at six two, I was the tallest in the in the fucking grade. Um shit, you sprouted fast, huh? Yeah. Uh I maybe I was like six foot six one in fresh mirror, but like rounded out to six two eventually um by the end of high school. But I was a center at a small school and at center playing against like six, five, six, six guys. It was it was fucking miserable. Oh, you didn't enjoy it because you kept losing? Yeah.

Cole 22:50

Yeah. In high school, it matters.

Joel 22:51

It taught me, it taught it, it taught me a lot. This podcast is getting into basketball now.

Cole 22:57

Well, this actually connects to how I do improv very heavily.

Joel 23:02

Does it? Yeah, sports. But you were saying Oh, yeah, that's why, that's why, that's why. Oh, yeah. Just to tie it back, I didn't have that experience of trying to juggle musical theater with sports. Um, I had the cliche coaching team that was like, You you want to be you want to do that gay stuff? Yeah. And my friends and my my football friends didn't go to my show. They were like, dude, you're fucking gay.

Cole 23:27

What are you doing? Those are my friends, dude. Oh, wow. In between their job selling newspapers on the streets in New York. Yeah, because they had that accident.

Joel 23:37

Dude, what are you even doing right now? Dude, still gonna go sing a song. That's so gay. Anyways, I gotta and I I don't want to say all of them. There, I had some supporter friends, but I think the majority were like, what are you doing, dude? You didn't, yeah, you didn't feel like you could freely do it without criticism. Yes, and without also like losing my status, you know, that high school status, how important that is at that time. Um yeah, all that to say, I love yeah, I am a big fan of your coach and your high school football team. That was college. That was college, yeah. I was I'm a big fan of your college coach and college football team.

Cole 24:21

Yeah, it was uh it was a really wonderful experience, and I think it painted a lot of how I do improv. And you think about again this cross between um athletics and improv. Okay. Uh, I guess performance in general. But when I played football, I was a punt returner, uh, which is this it's as spotlight of a position as you can get. The ball goes up in the air and the and everyone looks at you and they're waiting for you to catch this ball. If you don't catch the ball, your team could lose. It's so often, it's like a huge shift if you don't catch this ball. And then once you do catch it, you have the opportunity to go forward or just don't go forward. You know, you can just sit down and be like, okay, but this is where we want it. And I never did that. I always went forward, I always tried to catch it and I always went forward. And that thrill, that like feeling of every single person's watching me do this. I can't mess this

Take Full Accountability for Every Scene

Cole 25:20

up.

Joel 25:20

I have to interesting that same mentality you shared before about being on stage.

Cole 25:27

Oh yeah, and it it bleeds, it just bleeds into me. This this feeling of put interesting, put the pressure on me. I can do it, you know. Someone like it in an improv scene, and this is also, and I now that we're having this conversation and I'm saying this out loud, I feel like it is an unfair thing that I push other people into this kind of mentality. Um and that's something I'm realizing right now.

Joel 25:54

But you're saying because of the energy that you bring on stage.

Cole 25:59

What I verbally tell people they should be doing is to take full accountability of every scene on your own. Do not you it is no one else's fault why any scene is bad, why you think any scene is bad, why the audience doesn't laugh at any scene, why a joke falls flat. It is never anyone else's fault. It's just take full accountability for any one moment. If you're in a team and you can go on stage, just take full accountability, you know? And so that's why I have that like mentality.

Joel 26:33

That's your that's your belief, that's your mentality.

Cole 26:35

Yeah, and I need to stop telling people that.

Joel 26:37

Oh, because that's unique to you, that's unique to how you process and perform. Yeah, totally. I'm okay with have you told people that?

Cole 26:45

Yeah, I tell people that all the time.

Joel 26:46

Oh my god. If you're listening to this and you've gotten that feedback from Cole, Cole, what do you want to tell them? I stand on it, I stand by it. No, that's not what you were just saying.

Cole 26:56

I think it's unfair, but I do there's such a truth to it that I think is better for the community. I think the more that you yourself look at a scene, look at a moment, look at any one moment, and instead of projecting your uh how do I put this your uh disagreement with someone's choice, instead think of that as the football that goes up in the air. And it's now it's your responsibility to catch this ball, and you can do it, you know, just catch the ball and then move forward. Oh did you know you were gonna connect that? Let me just check my notebook. Scratch that's hilarious. No, but that's really a beautiful metaphor.

The Audience Wants to See Performers Who Care

Joel 27:48

Yeah, it it is. I think that connects really well, and I think you're right, because I even if you take it to an intense level, it at its heart, if you're taking the stage, like the audience wants to see performers on stage caring about what they're doing. We don't I I think I I see a lot of what we said already, though, like that casual improv energy, like nonchalant energy on stage. It's like, what do you if you don't care about it, why should I care about it if I'm watching if I'm watching this show?

You Don't Have to Love Improv to Give It Your All

Cole 28:17

Yeah, and there's a difference too with like there's a difference between this being something that's really important to you and just giving it your all on stage. Yeah, improv cannot matter to you. It can be like, whatever, it's something I do once a month, something I do once a year. I go to a jam once a year, big deal. But you will get more out of it, the audience will get more out of it. Everyone benefits, no one is less for you just putting all the effort you can in the fucking seven minutes that you're on stage.

Joel 28:51

Can we swear? Yes, yeah. I I've enabled uh explicit. I I put the the the little E, the little E check mark on the podcast. So we're good to go, baby. We're good to go.

Cole 29:06

You can say anything, but wait, don't hold on. It's a whole different thing when you're doing a podcast because like we're naked right now, but that's fine because they don't know.

Joel 29:16

Yeah, because we're not recording it yet. Yeah, yeah. Um, so that's just for us. That's just for us. Um, but yeah, we can't you can cuss if you if you feel the emotion and the passion of what the conversation is leading to using a cuss word. Um do you say cuss words? You don't say curse words? I say cuss. I used to say curse words, but then I I it it transitioned at some point to cuss, and I don't know when. I hate cuss. I used to hate cuss, but now I'm using it. I don't know why.

Cole 29:46

It's gross to me. I don't know.

Joel 29:47

Um where I grew up in Jersey, we used we say curse words. Yeah, curse words, but for whatever reason here in the south, a lot of people say cuss words, so I've just kind of adopted cuss words now.

Cole 29:58

You should not use what people do in the south as your guiding compass. Nothing, nothing wrong with people in the south. Damn, that's that's recorded. I mean, I would also say that about people from the north too. Yeah, just uh maybe just about humans. Yeah, because as we know, all of your high school buddies were from the Norse. They're from the North? Yeah, some of them. My old buddy Odin. Whoa. Odin, yeah. How many eyes he got? Three. He's got one. Odin? Odin. Oh, because he has the patch. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, because his crow took his eye. His crow took his eye. For all the wisdom in the world. So that he may know more in seeing less. That is true, I think. I think he gains like some power. He gains wisdom. Yeah.

Joel 30:54

Um going back to improv. Um that was a r that was a really nice tangent. Um I don't feel as connected. How-sa.

Cole 31:09

Okay, you want you wanna play this game? What game?

Joel 31:12

What game? What game do you want to play? With you, buddy? Do you play chess? Uh I've played chess. Like I know how to play chess, but I'm not good at it. I barely play.

Cole 31:24

Can I ask you an improv question? Sure. It can be related to improv? Yeah. Okay. I I'm not sure what is allowed in this podcast. If playing like doing improv was a game, what game do you equate it most to? Ooh. You can think on it, let it gestate if you have some questions that you want to ask me.

Joel 31:47

Okay. Game. If if improv was a game, what game would it be? Okay. Maybe no.

Cole 31:59

I'm thinking of a different game. The audience is gonna think you're so smart because Matt is definitely gonna edit this.

Joel 32:08

Oh, we're gonna edit the silences out, and then it's gonna, and then my answer's gonna be super quick. Yeah, but the audience won't know. Yeah. But I'm gonna bring it up. It's definitely not chess because that's competitive and overly strategic, right? Because I I think it's too strategic. It it I feel like it lacks freedom. There's too much structure in chess, right? The moves can only move a certain way. Um, so that doesn't feel like improv to me. I'm thinking about the this game comes to mind, but it's not collaborative, which is why I'm hesitant to name it. It's the sticks game, where like you drop a bunch of sticks, and however they fall, you gotta like take it up to you know, pick it up. Kerplunk? Is that what it's called? What the heck?

Cole 32:56

I think I'm just making that up. Yeah, that sounds made up. Um I know what game you're talking about. I've never played it, but I saw the commercials and I'm like, that looks so fun.

Joel 33:04

It's it's cool, it is competitive, but the way I used to play growing up was like it was collaborative. You would just take turns grabbing sticks and without moving the other ones. Um, but the game is meant to be played competitively because you're supposed to collect as more sticks than the other person without moving the thing.

Cole 33:22

If you think about if you think about those sticks as support, that's exactly that's how I'm trying to look at it. Yes. You can think about improv competitively if you're just like, I'm I'm gonna be more supportive. I'm gonna be so fucking supportive, I'm gonna kick their asses in supportiveness. Cool. I've never thought about it that way. There's nothing wrong with winning improvements.

Being Competitive in Support

Joel 33:42

Being competitive in support.

Cole 33:47

That's wild. That's gonna change everything. You're gonna start palming scenes in no time. Wow, just like high school.

Mixed or Unknown 33:55

Yeah.

Cole 33:56

Um okay, cool.

Joel 33:59

So let's.

Cole 34:07

Okay, how do we circle back here? Circle back to what? What even that was a million years ago. We gotta start something new. No, we're still we're still on your background.

Joel 34:17

We haven't got out of college. We haven't got out of college yet. You're still goal, you're still in college right now. We haven't we haven't gotten to you well, you we haven't got to you leaving college and then finding improv in Atlanta. All right, you want that? Yeah, dude, that's what I want.

Cole 34:35

I'm dating someone at the time, graduate, and we and and she gets a job in Atlanta. And so she offers, she's like, You want to come with? And I'm like, whatever. I'm a yes for most things in life. Interesting. And so I'm like, yeah, cool, sounds great. And then we move here. Uh, I start working at Stone Mountain as like a mascot and uh fun and like some other things, you know. Uh I get like a job as a busser, you know, just like regular dumb, you know, starting off jobs. And uh then I see I see a thing for dad's garage, a little improv. And I'm like, oh man, I loved improv. Let's take it. And I take a class. And in this class, two incredibly important things happen for the rest of like who I was as an improviser. Uh one, I meet my very best friend in the whole wide world, Hannah. And two, I go to my first improv jam. Wow. Those two things are like foundational for me. Yeah, I mean I it was like really it was fun too because Hannah is like my my best friend, and we've been, you know, really, really, really close ever since that day. But I show up and I'm there on time because I'm a punctual human being. And Hannah's late. She is a she is the reason I have learned how to tolerate non-punctuality, tardiness, if you will. She's she's gonna love this. She comes in, she's not gonna listen to this. She doesn't listen to it. I'm gonna send it to her direction. She barely likes improv. She's probably one of the best improvisers in the history of improv. Yeah, and she barely likes it. She comes in late, and I'm doing like a gag, a joke or something. Like, she doesn't have enough, there's not enough chairs. I don't know her. And I was like, You can you can build one. And there were like some like blocks, some like kid blocks or something. And but she comes in late chewing gum with her mouth open. Of course I'm gonna like raz that human being. Sure. We don't talk, like again, and we see each other at the improv jam, the dad's improv jam. And we're like, oh hey, hey, we're cordial, blah, blah, blah. And we go up, we crush, we have a great time, and then from then on, best friends, we go to every jam. We love it. The the improv set feel like it brought you together? Yeah, we didn't we didn't really do it together. Uh, we didn't like improvise together, but we were both there. I see, I see. And the camaraderie of it all. Yeah, hey, that's why jams are important, you know. Go to jams, make friends. Yeah, jams. That was at a time where the dad's jam had like 11 people. So few. You'd go up and you would just do a little thing. Like Ed was hosting it, and he would give notes afterwards, and it was just so small, so interesting. Yeah.

The First Jam Explosion in Atlanta

Joel 37:51

Now it's like a whole different thing. It's a whole different thing. It's a whole different thing. It's it's more of a social event now, it's community, yeah. Than um, yeah, because the reps with the size of it now is huge, but it's it can be pretty hectic, the sets now with the amount of people kind of like trying to get into

How Running the Dad's Garage Jam Has Changed

Joel 38:14

scenes.

Cole 38:14

Oh, do you do you guys because you you still co-host that, right? Do you guys worry about that? Is that like something you think about?

Joel 38:24

Yes. Yeah, for sure. Um yes, it is. I we don't have like a uh click solution yet. What we prefer is we love when there are teachers present, conservatory members, conservatory alumni, that we can strategically place on teams to support everyone and make sure everyone gets in, is my preference. Um, not all weeks we have that available. Um, and then it just becomes it is what it is kind of thing.

Cole 38:53

Um I didn't know you guys did that. That's cool.

Joel 38:56

Yeah.

Mixed or Unknown 38:57

Yeah.

Joel 38:57

The jam's changed a lot, and I think it's full. I think it's I mean, we have like 60, 70, sometimes 80, 90 people there every week. It's crazy. Um, and obviously, and the the cap is 50, just so for listeners to know, but a lot of people still go just to spectate and hang out because it's social because it's a community event. It's a community social event too. And it gets it can get hectic. So at the top, I try to give reminders about like the boundaries and making sure that we're taking care of each other and just like try to give a few words of you know at the top to kind of get in the mentality of support. And it typically helps to for the night to go smoother.

Cole 39:38

Yeah, I think it, I think it's worked out really well. Yeah, everyone loves it. There's such a uh I mean, yeah, community is a good word for it, but there's there's such a gravity to it, you know? It's so easy to for different reasons come to this thing, you know, like, oh, I'm coming to see my friend, go, oh, I'm just looking for something to do. I just want to, you know, like have a good time. I want to, you know, get my reps in. Oh, oh, I just I want to do improv because I like my friends are doing improv, you know? And there's so many reasons to get there. And then once you're there, it's like really addictive.

The Musical Improv Jam and Getting First-Timers to Sing

Joel 40:12

It's addictive, yeah. Yeah, it's fun. This next Tuesday, this won't be out by the time to promote it, but next Tuesday's musical improv and I'm hosting. That's really cool. It's fun.

Cole 40:22

Yeah. What what's your deal with um when it comes to the musical improv jam? Uh what is the like not your deal, but what is your mindset going into it when you're trying to get people to do music? Oh, okay. It's okay.

Mixed or Unknown 40:41

It's okay.

Cole 40:42

When you're trying to um get people to do musical improv, what is in your mind like a success? Is it them, you know, singing, just like getting up there and singing? Let's see, what is a success?

Joel 40:59

I think for the first timers to just try it. Just to try it, just to just to try singing. Even it doesn't matter if it's off-key, off rhythm, does not matter at all. Just to try and have fun doing it.

Mixed or Unknown 41:14

Yeah.

Joel 41:15

Um, yeah. What's surprising me after each musical improv jam, because I I take an inventory of like who's first time is it, and I see the hands, and then like there's always like five. There's always like five every time, every time there's always new people. I don't know. Crazy. But something that happened at the last musical improv jam was it was somebody's first jam ever. Level one, like level one student, first jam, musical improv, and they signed up and they and they played, they sang.

Cole 41:47

What scene was it? What scene? What'd they do? I don't remember. I don't remember. Name one thing from that set. I'm not putting you on the spot. I have like a really good memory for improv scenes.

Joel 42:00

She was. I remember she was wearing, she was wearing like a black um, like overcoat, like a thin overcoatish type of I don't know what the fuck to call it. What were you wearing? A button-up shirt striped. Are you messing with me? I can't.

Cole 42:18

No, I'm being real. I have and probably's the only thing that I like have a good memory for.

Joel 42:22

I think you were in the room. I yeah, I bet I was. I think you were doing that thing where you hover in the in the by the back wall.

Cole 42:31

You're doing that thing that you do. Yeah, I don't I can't sit down. If I sit down for too long, I get sleepy. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I I'd have to stand in college when I was taking classes. Really? Mm-hmm.

Joel 42:44

Yeah. Um, so it was the first time, and then afterwards she stayed for QA and the quit in the notes, and she was like, that was so fun. She had a blast. Cute. Yeah. So then it made me so then I think about that, and because I know it's really intimidating and really vulnerable, even more even slightly more so than improv because you like to trust singing and like to a melody, improvising lyrics. It's tough. Um, so just getting people to try it is is a success. Yeah. And afterwards, after the last one, too, a lot of people were like, Oh, that wasn't as scary as I thought it was gonna be when I started doing it. And I'm like, Yeah, that's it. That's always the case.

Cole 43:22

That's literally everything.

Joel 43:22

That's everything, every single thing.

Cole 43:26

Um except for snowboarding. Snowboarding gets scarier the more you learn how to do it.

Joel 43:29

Yeah, because then the hills get steeper, and like you're doing like backflips. Yeah, and then you realize like and then you're in the X Games, and then you're in the Olympics, and then sponsored Mountain Dew.

Cole 43:40

You don't want to drink the product, but you have to.

Joel 43:42

Then you're sponsored by Mountain Dew, and then there's a whole ethical thing, like this is poison for kids, you know? Yeah, it's um so it just gets tougher and tougher and tougher.

Mixed or Unknown 43:56

Oh wait, let's circle back to improv. Oh man, that should really be the title of your show. What let's again let's go back to improv.

Cole's Hot Take: Improvisers Who Think They Know Better

Joel 44:08

Um this doesn't happen as much in under other interviews.

Cole 44:12

Just to let you know. I know why. It's because all these fucking improvisers they love talking about improv. Here's all my knowledge about improv. Whoa, you can hot take. No, keep that in.

Joel 44:26

Everyone needs to hear. No, but we'll there's something there, right? What's the what's your thought? Elaborate on that thought.

Knowledge Raises Your Floor, Not Your Ceiling

Cole 44:33

I stand on this too, yeah. Yeah. Um, I think that there is an abundance of people that think they know better in improv. And I I don't necessarily think that that's a good way to be. Uh I've been doing improv for like 15 years. Um, probably longer. Uh, because I'm not well, what year is it? Since 2010 is when I started. So 2010. 16 years. Um I've been doing improv for yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's 2026. Yeah. But 16 years. And if someone has been doing improv for one year, I think that we have we have no reason to believe that I am like better at this than the next person. But yet we come at this from this like weird angle of of like judgment and criticism, uh, suggesting that people, you know, don't know what they're doing. And and so much of what I think is like truly beautiful about improv doesn't even come from the knowledge of improv. It comes from like a willingness to do things and like a a love of the moment, you know, and an honesty in our reactions. And none of that is is like what you're learning from a well, that's not true. A lot of authors will write that, but you know, it's like it's not like foundational knowledge leads to better, more equipped improvisers. I think um, I think what knowledge does is it raises your floor, you know, it gives you tools so that you will fail less, but it doesn't raise your ceiling. I don't think knowledge raises your ceiling in improv. I think so often it'll pull that ceiling down because you start thinking of the I know that these things are possible. I know that the stuff that I have done will work. I know that, you know, like here's tools that I have, and when I use these tools, I will get to this height. And this is a height of success. But someone that doesn't have those tools and doesn't know what they're doing might stumble on on something that is like uh not untouched, untapped. And now they fucking shoot straight up in the air because they don't know what they're doing, they don't even know about a ceiling, they're just and you know, they're also gonna fall harder because they don't have the tools, they don't, they're not building relationships, they're not setting up things for callbacks, you know, but they're fucking flying to the moon and then they're crashing into the ground. So whenever people are like really knowledgeable and then they're they they comment on things of other people not being knowledgeable, or like, oh, it was so hard, you know, like all these people, you know, it's just like hard to improvise with these people, and I'm just like, oh God, yeah. Fuck are you talking about? I don't care how many class you you're in level four and they're in level one, and you're gonna comment on them not knowing how to do improv. I'm like, oh, you're a a teacher, you're a coach, and you're gonna comment on these people and how they're doing it wrong. It just so that's when I say, like, you know, people like improvisers, the more they do it, them and and they get that mentality of like I know what I'm doing in juxtaposition to them not knowing what they're doing. That is such a dangerous, yeah, not very fun mentality.

Joel 48:10

Yeah. I mean, especially in a in this artistic space that requires the removal of judgment to fully to fully express yourself and feel free and reach this level of like childlike play. Right? To reach that, like you do you can't judge yourself. You can't judge your choices or judge the other person's making offers at you. Yeah, you know. Um, yeah, I I used to when I first started thinking the way you just said about like playing with tough people to play with, be like, oh man, the other was tough. They are you know, you put in like over there. Um and then now where I'm at now, I'm more aligned with what you what your perspective that's like. Now when I go to when I talk about jams and people are like, oh, I don't go to jams more. There's there's tough. There, there's like, yeah, and it does it's tough playing with new improvisors. Now I was like, yeah, that's why I love it though.

Stop Qualifying Your Improv by How Experienced You Are

Cole 49:09

Yeah, it's hard, but it makes me a better improviser. Like who's making your choices there, Bucko? Who's making your choices? You're making your choices. What do you mean it's that's hard to perform with anybody? What are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're the one making all of your choices.

Joel 49:25

Yeah, it's so and something that helped me realize this is um you're an example of this too, and so is Madeline Evans. Um like I could see uh you and Madeline in any scene make it work with anybody, it doesn't matter. Uh I see Madeline turn any any offer, no matter how negative or wild, and just listen, be present, and lift that offer up and like make it work, turn that scene into gold somehow.

Cole 49:51

Yeah.

Joel 49:52

And doesn't matter, doesn't matter to still be present and supportive.

Cole 49:59

I think something that I think Madeline and I both have, I guess the two things that

Cole's Disgust of Teaching Improv (and Why He's Softened)

Cole 50:04

we really have in common is like uh a ton of experience, really committing to this thing, um, and then also an absolute love of the craft.

Joel 50:11

Yeah.

Cole 50:11

And I think the more you love it and the more you lean into that, and the more you're like are really excited about any the next moment and the less you're thinking about, you know, you're worrying about thing. You know, like the more you love it, the less you're worrying about it, you know. So when you're in the moment and something happens, if your default, if your reflex is to love what they did, even if it doesn't make any sense, then the choice that you make that follows their choice uh is coming at like a much healthier perspective. Because what you're you know, like what you're saying is you made the perfect choice. Thank you so much. Here's my contribution, you know. And then it doesn't really matter what their choice is. Doesn't matter.

Mixed or Unknown 50:54

Yeah.

Cole 50:55

Mm-hmm. Beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for saying that. Yeah, you're welcome. And it was improv related, like you love. I love it when it's improv related.

Joel 51:05

Thank you. Circle back to improv. Let's circle back though. Let's circle back because okay, so you had the dad's garage class with Hannah, met Hannah, went to the gym, became friends. What's next after that?

Going to Jams Four Times a Week Pre-Pandemic

Cole 51:21

Uh I climb the classes at dad's, you know. Go through the levels. You level up. The much as I as much as I like, you know, I'm I'm pretty anti-authoritarian when it comes to improv and I and and I I don't like uh geez, Joel's just chugging away. Come on, it was quiet. It was quiet. Um, but I could hear it. As much as I um hate on a lot of it, I think everyone should take every class that um they can uh reasonably afford. And if you love the craft, because uh like I said, you know, um if you love it, then what anyone says is the perfect wonderful thing, you know. So you can really gain a lot from anybody. Uh and tools, tools are great, tools are great to have. But I went through these these classes, and I had an entirely different experience than what anyone will have at Dad's because my level one and my level four teacher was Matt Stanton, which is like one of the founding members of Dad's Garage, and he was a fucking phenom. Like the way that he performed, how like he was effortlessly supportive, and he would be the most interesting character, and like his choices would be the thing that you remember, and it would be him lifting someone else up, you know. So like he was a star support player that was just so fucking amazing at it, and he loved it so much, everything about him was just like pinnacle improv to me, and he was my level one and my level four. And so Hannah and I got this like really like we sandwiched our our education in you know, like the perfect environment. So after that, I felt I really did feel like oh fuck, man. Atlanta is the place to be. Improv is the thing I love. I want to do it as much as I can. I'm gonna go to every jam. I was going to jams like four times a week. That was also during the first jam explosion. Pre-pandemic. It yeah, this is a million years before the pandemic, yeah. But the yeah, it like improv was pretty mild in Atlanta, and I watched it, I had no part in it. I just got to participate in it, but I watched jam after jam after jam start up, and it became like you could go to so many, you know, it was high wire, it was um timeline, Richard Kickers, it was Richard Kickers, it was uh dad's all these different jams happening, and you could just be like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You go from the dad's jam to the richer kickers jam, and you're you're you're doing improv from 7 to 2 a.m. You know, it was you just did it. It was so fun. Yeah. Richard Kickers is coming back. Yeah, and they did it, they did one before the teaser jam. Yeah, and it was pretty good. The thing about Richard Kickers that and I'm how many times have people referenced it in this? Well, just I think just with Madeline. I it was the most important jam that a lot of performers could have gone to. The way that it freed you of the restrictions, how dangerous it was, it was the most dangerous jam. Yeah. Like topic-wise, um, physically dangerous, you know?

Joel 54:59

Yes, when we talked about it um in Madeline's um interview, we talked about it being the Wild West of jams.

Cole 55:07

Yeah, it really was. There's um there's a movie called The Good, the Bad, and the Weird, and it's I can't remember where I think it's a Korean film, but it's like a cowboy and like a samurai and like oh like assassins or something like that, and they're all just in this like saloon town and they're just fighting each other, and the whole time it's just a series of like, I can't imagine what's gonna happen next, but I know that with these three things, it's not gonna be normal, and that's how every Richard Kickers felt. I was like, I don't know how it's gonna be weird, but it's not gonna be normal.

Joel 55:45

Yeah, and Madeline said that that's a big reason. Those those jams, specifically Richard Kickers, is what helped her to hone her craft of supporting and listening and making scenes work out of nothing, out of like, yeah, she said it was that jam. Oh, and helped a ton.

Cole 56:00

I that's so interesting. If you think about you saying Madeline and and me being able to improvise with anybody, that comes from improvising with everybody. Yeah. And I think Richard Kickers was a great example of being able to a free space to improvise with people that are doing inappropriate, offensive, you know, like um just egregious things. And the scenes weren't getting cut, you know, people weren't just swiping the scene away. There, there was no one controlling the edits to make that stop. You had to be on your toes. Someone would come out, someone would come out and they'd be doing something like blatantly racist, and you would just be on stage with them, and they're like doing something just so horrible. And you're like, okay, now I gotta live in this scene. I have to, I have to like justify your choices, or I have to make choices, and I have to do it in a way that I disavow your racism while accepting that as your offer, you know, and doing stuff like that, like figuring out how to juggle that or physical violence, like someone, you know, like literally pushing you, like shoving you aggressively, drunken belligerents, they're getting on stage and they're just like you know, falling all over and they're saying all these things and not listening, like learning to improvise with that. Oh, and then and then you go on stage and someone's like not yes anding you. It's like, oh, this is ah yeah, this is fine. That's a cakewalk. You didn't even say a slur.

Joel 57:42

I can work with this, you know. Yeah, wow. Yeah, that makes sense. And and just for listeners, like especially if new improvisers are listening. Um, I I maybe wouldn't recommend the roacher kickers jam to start out. I would recommend it 100% as your first jam. Don't I think you should. Well, if you're up for it, because I I guess what I would hate to happen is if a new improviser goes to that jam, has a bad experience, and then is just like, I don't want to do this anymore. Totally.

Cole 58:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joel 58:08

Um, I you can go spectate, it's up to you, but just make sure that you're you're up for it and mentally prepared to participate if you're gonna play.

Cole 58:16

Yeah, well, and you'll never experience what we experienced. The community as a whole has is different. Yeah, the community has become self-correcting. Uh everybody is way kinder and nicer, and we're we're more uh as a community into this idea of like censoring people. And you know, to a certain degree, I'm I'm really appreciative of how we've collectively been like you guys, we really can't, you know, be evil people, you know, you you can't be an evil person and just keep getting back on stage. And I'm like, I'm I'm all about that. But now I'm also saddened that the response to that is just like a silencing, it's non-educal. It's become kind of this shunning, you know. And a lot of people would say, like, well, they shouldn't be doing improv if they're gonna like have that kind of mentality. But to me, uh like I I kind of saw some people learn through doing that and you know, not getting any laughs, not you know, getting supported, uh, and having people actually in real time tell them, hey, that's not the right, like you're a bad person for having these opinions, you know, that are like hate speech. And then they like can self-factualize, they can in that moment maybe

Who's Responsible When Something Goes Wrong?

Cole 59:43

think about it.

Joel 59:43

Yeah. Who who's responsible to make that communication, you think?

Mixed or Unknown 59:49

Oh god, wow.

Cole 59:51

Um me.

Joel 59:55

Cole Watsworth. No, all right, everyone, all right. Send your emails, text messages to Cole Wadsworth if you have an issue.

Cole 1:00:03

If you have someone, if you're improvising out there in Atlanta and you have someone and they're just saying some really terrible things on stage and you don't know how to address it, you can come to me though. I feel very comfortable. Yeah. As a person I would say that too. Yeah. You can come to me and and I because I I'm not afraid of um uh just like talking to people, having these conversations. I feel very equipped. Um, and I'm I used to get in a lot of fights, like fist fights, so I can stop it. I can handle myself. Oh, like when you were in school? Yeah, when I was in school.

Joel 1:00:34

Wow, cool. You used to get used to be a you used to get into fights. Oh yeah, I was a big brawler. Wow.

Cole 1:00:40

It's because I was small and sarcastic.

Joel 1:00:42

Oh, I see. That makes sense, actually. That tracks.

Cole 1:00:47

Yeah, you would never experience it because you're intimidatingly, you know, what your your presence. Oh, yeah, I guess so. Beard.

Joel 1:00:57

Did you beard early? Early high school. Tall with a beard, no one's fucking with you. I didn't I was in high school not getting ID'd already. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah.

Tommy Futch and the I Need a Hero Moment

Joel 1:01:07

Let's circle back to everybody. Okay, Richard Kickers, but we were still, let's see, I think we're still journeying through your timeline of doing improv in Atlanta. We're talking about the jams. You were jamming four times a week, right? Yeah, that's how we spiral off to Richard Kickers.

Cole 1:01:27

Do you want another pivotal moment in my development?

Joel 1:01:29

Yeah, give it to me. Tommy Fudge. Did you ever meet Tommy Fudge? I've met him. I didn't never took a class with him. I've met him at the extent of like after some shows at dad's to be like, hey, great show, Tommy. That was you're hilarious kind of thing.

Cole 1:01:43

Yeah. I mean, that guy, oh man, he reminds me, I I gotta make this very clear to everybody. I fucking love improv. I love everything about it, start to finish. And even the things that I despise when people like think they know everything, or when classes try and tell me what to do, I still love that. You know, I love when people are really educated about improv and they know the structures and and they have like very specific ways that they want to do it, and even if they think other people should do it that way, I still love that. I get frustrated from it, and I think sometimes I get heated and I say like I hate these things. But at the end of the day, I would rather have someone be trying to tell other people how to do improv than for someone to just like not do it. You know what I mean? Yeah. But thinking about Tommy Fetch reminded me of that because I think he's such a powerful inspiration for me in the world of like positivity and the love of the craft that that like pulled it out of me.

Joel 1:02:50

Yeah, I wish I hear stories I've heard stories about Tommy, people that have had him as a teacher, mentor. Um, and I wish I I wish I knew him more because he sounds like he was such an incredible influence and um person in the in the community. Yeah, I have a freaking award. I have a Tommy Futch award that I won, the first inaugural um Tommy Futch award. And uh you would love him. Yeah, I know. I I've I've had people tell me that. Yeah. R.I.P. Tommy.

Cole 1:03:27

He uh he saw in Hannah and I, because we were we were like performing at dad's a lot, and he was the first one that was like, oh, these two, these two got something. And he pulled us into uh this show that he used to do at Manual's Tavern. And it was like him and like his like older improv like friends, and then they would do improv for like older people at Manual's Tavern. And it was so it was so much different than the other improv, you know. It it was like I it's like you have to peek through a window of what improv used to be like. Interesting. So you would get like older style jokes, you know, older like rhythms to it all, to how the show flowed. So classical. And uh, and we got to do like shows with him. And then there was one day where I had like kind of thrown out this idea as a gag, and Tommy sprung it on me in the middle of the show, and this was like I was pretty nervous, uh you know, like just in general, uh, because I was new, and it was um uh hero. I want to be hero. Uh I need a hero. I need a hero. That song. I need a hero. I told I had told Tommy, I was like, I can do anything, I can make anything interesting if that is my background music, you know, as a gag. And then in the middle of the show, he was like, All right, I got this game for everybody. Uh, I got some music queued up, and I need Cole to come out on stage, and we're just gonna play this. But what we need from you guys is like something that couldn't possibly be interesting. Uh, and then I was like, he's not gonna do it. He didn't tell me beforehand, and so he gets like fishing or something like that. And I do like the length of the song, I make like a little silent music video to it, and it was so good, it was so fucking fun.

Joel 1:05:29

Like you're just doing physicality to the song, right?

Cole 1:05:32

Just doing physicality, just catching a fish, you know, but it's like insane, and the song keeps going. The song's so long, it's so long, it's long, yeah. And then, you know, like by the end of it, I felt like I was like, Oh fuck me, I can do anything. Wow. Oh, you're such a good guy. That's I'll tear up if I talk about it too much.

Joel 1:05:54

I got tissues here for that reason. I got tissues here for that. People people have cried on the podcast already. I believe it. I mean, improv is powerful and emotional, yeah.

Improv Saved My Life

Cole 1:06:07

Anything that builds a community and then tells that community to be supportive, I think could be like just inherently emotional.

Joel 1:06:16

Yeah. I mean, what what comes up often in conversations of improv is that um not just with the people I'm interviewing, like my friends and colleagues and mentors, but like students too. Like I've heard more on more than one occasion someone say, like, improv saved my life. Like improv, like I've had people like I've had that, yeah. Yeah, I have a student be like, I can tear up just thinking about it. I had a student tell me, I didn't know I can feel happy again. After what whatever event happened in their their life, I was like, I didn't know I can feel happy again. Thank you so much. This class was so fun, and yeah, I'm gonna continue. And then you know, they continue through all the the levels or whatever. Um yeah.

Cole 1:07:10

That is really cute. It's it's nice to positively impact people, and then it's also kind of beautiful uh as an instructor in this community to uh then see them years later, you know, and they're definitely on a team, they're definitely performing at you know, like this, you know, festival or whatever, and you get to like watch them and remember back to it, like, oh my god, it feels like yesterday when you know you you couldn't stop, you know, doing like uh it's beautiful, it's a beautiful

What Are You Genuinely Qualified to Teach?

Cole 1:07:46

experience.

Joel 1:07:46

I I yeah, I don't even know if there's words to it.

Cole 1:07:51

Um I don't think there's words for it, for that feeling or whatever, but what do you think outside of musical improv, what do you think you are actually genuinely qualified to teach in the world of improv?

Joel 1:08:04

Hmm. Like a subsect of improv, you're saying?

Cole 1:08:08

Like a or even, yeah, or whatever.

Joel 1:08:10

Yeah. Um I think me, I'm yeah, I'm I'm going, I'm leaning towards emotions in improv or conveying? Conveying, yeah. Oh, yeah, conveying feeling. Yeah, feeling. Yeah. Like not because I I I think a pet peeve of mine is when um improvisers are saying how they feel, but they're not showing that emotion that they're saying. Like their words aren't matching their facial expression or their body language. Yeah. They'll just be like, uh, I'm furious that you you did that.

Mixed or Unknown 1:08:49

Yeah.

Joel 1:08:49

Like I'm really mad. And I'm just like, you don't look mad. Look look mad, act mad, you know. Like I think it maybe ties back to the acting, the acting skills of it and like tapping into that's that stuff. So maybe emotions, or also there's this workshop. I'm gonna I'm gonna shout it out again. I've done this before. But um with um Justin and Kelly, these two performers, improvisers in Florida, they run a countdown, countdown improv festival in Florida. They did a workshop, love the one you're with. And it's just an improv about like how to fully love the person you're on stage with. Um, and it was such a beautiful workshop. I'd love to read reteach that similar workshop. It's just like just to every time you hit the stage, do it full of love in your heart for yourself and for your team partner, and it truly transforms the improv.

Cole 1:09:50

Yeah. Hmm, that is interesting. Would you feel that that is universally uh beneficial? Sorry. That's okay. Y'all angry? No, that came out of my mouth. Oh, I couldn't tell. Um what if you hate the person? What if you actually like despise them and morally do you hate anybody?

Mixed or Unknown 1:10:13

No, I don't think so. Privileged? I don't think so.

Joel 1:10:18

There's people that I I maybe strongly dislike. I I don't know if I'd ever say hate.

Mixed or Unknown 1:10:23

Yeah.

Joel 1:10:24

I don't know. No, because I I I I I think about someone who like I'm close to hating. That one of the somebody in my head that I strongly dislike for like ethical or moral reasons, and I'm like, and I think, and I'm like, I don't know their upbringing. Totally. I don't know that person's history, I don't know why they are the way they are. I don't know what experiences led to the creation of that human being. You know what I mean? Totally. So like I still I try to still have this, you know, a little sliver of grace for a person. Um 100%.

Cole 1:10:58

That's just the right way to be. Yeah. Just good for you. Good

Can You Love Someone on Stage You Strongly Dislike?

Cole 1:11:03

for me.

Joel 1:11:03

Yeah, I don't have to have the hate in my body, you know, for somebody else. Um, but uh to your question, I think even if you're on stage, even if I'm on stage with somebody that I strongly dislike, when we're on stage and we're performing, and if we're doing improv specifically, I'm gonna love that person. I'm gonna love their ideas, I'm gonna love their offers and everything they give me.

Cole 1:11:24

Okay, but those are two different things for sure. Like loving the person and loving their ideas and their offers. Because when you said that, I was like, immediately I was like, I don't really like that. Because there's people that um for ethical reasons, I'm like, I know what you've done. Like I know things you've done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for those reasons, I would be okay if you were hit by a bus. But in this moment, everything you say is gonna be incredibly like, I love what you're saying and I love the choices you're making.

Joel 1:11:56

Yeah, I get I get what you're saying. Trying to separate it in supporting their choices. But I think I think for me, yeah, I I feel like I'd have to filter it through for this moment on stage. I'm gonna love that person also.

Cole 1:12:09

Yeah, it was because you got such a big, big heart. No, I think it's a regular heart. No, you got a big butterfly. It's a regular size heart. Yeah, it's a regular size heart. Fine, but it's it is it's like the Hoover vacuum of regulars. Whereas my heart is kind of more mine's like those trash pickuppers, like spikes. The trash pickup spikes? What the heck? You know, like when people are doing like highway cleanups.

Joel 1:12:32

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cole 1:12:33

And they they stab wrappers and stuff, and they stick the one specific thing that they want, and then they put it in the basket, and then they go to the next one. Yours is like a big vacuum, and it's just all these people get sucked up into your heart, and you're like, here's all I have room for all of you.

Joel 1:12:47

Sucking up people. I don't know if I'm sucking up people. I don't know if I like this analogy about my love. I feel like there's a better fitting analogy than me sucking up garbage, me being a vacuum cleaner, sucking up garbage, and you're you're the needle garbage picker upper.

Cole 1:13:08

Oh wow. It's also something suggestive about that. My love is puncturing, and yours is what sucking. Yeah, it's not what those sucking, yeah. Yours sucks. No. Uh no, I've always found you to be like this incredibly loving human being with just like so much earnest and considerate uh energy. Everything that you do is just so like it's like a hug is you know, like intention. There's always like a hug behind whatever you're saying or whatever you're doing with someone. And I don't I don't think that that's true for a lot of people.

Joel 1:13:48

I appreciate you saying that. Um, shout out to my therapist.

Cole 1:13:52

Whoa. Hell yeah. How long have you had this therapist? Six years. Frick. I was gonna be like, well, I knew you before, but I didn't.

Joel 1:14:01

No, I've already pandemic therapist, pandemic's rough. Um yeah, so thank my therapist Rebecca for I was that's great.

Cole 1:14:14

I should have just said it. I should have just said it. I was gonna say thank you, Rebecca, before I even knew.

Joel 1:14:20

You guessed Rebecca in your head, you're gonna make a but all the time.

Cole 1:14:25

The word will come out of my mouth.

Joel 1:14:28

Yeah, I don't know if she didn't listen to the podcast, but thank you, thank um, thank Rebecca for this version of Joel that you're you have such nice things to say about is because of my therapist. Helped me through a lot.

Cole 1:14:40

Yeah, I guess she maybe she helped you take off you know the the layers to get to that joel, but that joel was always there.

Joel 1:14:49

Yeah, that Joel was always there, and I guess part of that meant same mentality I I see in other people. That's part of what I guess I was trying to say before. I'm like, okay, what layers does that person have on? That's good that aren't off yet, you know.

Cole on Being Vegan and Moral Conflict

Cole 1:15:05

Oh, you son of a bitch, you're gonna make me love people.

Joel 1:15:10

That's good. That's hysterical for you to be like, you're gonna make me love people. Yeah, that's hysterical. I'll resist.

Cole 1:15:20

No, you won't, you won't get my love. No, no, no. I have like I have such moral um uh how do I put uh what's I have uh I I morally clash with most people because I'm vegan, and that is a moral stance that I'm taking as a vegan, not like um it's not dietary or environmental, uh purely environmental. Um it's you know, like for the sake of the animals and stuff. And so like morally, I I conflict with a lot of people. And I've been thinking about this too, where it's like it's really tragic that the thing that I care most about, you know, um animal well-being, animal rights, uh like moral agenda-wise, this thing that is so important to me would truly benefit from like people that aren't that way just not being around. You know, like it just if if it like less animals, you know, are hurt when like I just, you know, these people aren't in this area. And that then that like conflicts with my my you know similar mentality of like like I don't really blame you for you know like what you're doing, right? Like you are someone that is just the final domino and a long string of dominoes that led to this moment, right?

Joel 1:16:41

To the purchase of this product, yeah, exactly consumption of this thing.

Cole 1:16:45

But that doesn't stop the fact that like if if you have no intention of ever being vegan, and you actually, if I could like see into your future and I'm like, oh fuck, you're just gonna do this forever, then less animals die if you get hit by a bus. I'm not advocating for non-vegans to get hit by a bus, but that is a moral like thing in my head that I'm thinking constantly. I'm like, this thing that matters so much to me. How do I, you know, rationalize this? Yeah, that's tough.

Joel 1:17:11

Would you like people more? Are you saying that there's like this threshold of how much you can like or love somebody because they're not vegan?

Cole 1:17:21

Oh man, it's so interesting. Oh man, is this even something I want to put out there? It's like really tough. No, you gotta stand on your ground, you gotta stand on your morals. Uh, I do stand on that. And uh, yeah, to a certain degree, if you don't have if you don't have it in you to have the empathy for these animals, that it, you know, to care about them enough to to take away some of the luxuries of your life to ensure that they're not tortured, you know, they're not born into torture for the purpose of literally a luxury, then you know, like there's there's like a certain chunk of my consideration for you that's blocked out. Like I I can't really I can't invest in someone knowing that that investment leads to more yeah, you know, suffering. Fuck me. There goes all my sponsors. Sorry, Mountain Dew. Or explicit. The podcast the podcast is explicit anyway. No, but I have sponsors.

Joel 1:18:23

You have sponsors? Mountain Dew is gonna Well, you know what we could do is we're gonna circle back to improv. No, but this is actually really powerful and this is important. I think so too. That's why I wanted I wanted to see that through that thread.

Cole 1:18:37

Yeah, I've been resisting um letting this side of me out. This like Whit which side exactly? Like being like aggressively about my morals. Because so many people, and for the longest time I agree, so many people were like, you know, um like oh you're just gonna push people away, you know, like you're just gonna if you're just trying to proselytize your, you know, your your vegan agenda, people are just gonna like go, you know, twice as hard against it and stuff. And I don't know. I've seen enough of my friends, you know, the years that I've been casual about it, not change. And if I care so much about it, I should really be, you know, outwardly advocating for it. Okay, let's circle back to improv.

Joel 1:19:22

Well, let's circle about to improv, but just to wrap this up, I'm gonna make um I'm gonna make a uh a change to consume less meat.

Cole 1:19:32

I would appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, if I if it instead of that, I would love to send you some resources. Oh, please do. Yeah. I'll welcome some resources to help. I know you're like an information consumer.

Joel 1:19:49

It's gonna be calling me a vacuum again. Are you just trying not to call me a vacuum again? What is everyone Cole just thinks I'm a vacuum?

Cole 1:19:59

I just think you're you're really, you know, like you're so good, you're so efficient at being a vacuum. You're a lot like my next sponsor, Dyson. Oh, I wish. Can we get a Dyson sponsor?

Mixed or Unknown 1:20:11

Please.

Joel 1:20:12

Is that that's my dream? Dyson? Dyson's in my dream to have a Dyson vacuum cleaner is my dream.

Cole 1:20:18

The place is so clean. Wait, wait, wait. To have a Dyson vacuum? Yeah. That's my dream. Is to have one. And I refuse to buy one. I must be sponsored.

Joel 1:20:30

Well, they're expensive. I can't justify of $800 vacuum.

Cole 1:20:36

That's crazy.

Joel 1:20:37

And I'm not gonna get the cheap Dyson if it's a Dyson. I'm if I'm gonna get a Dyson, I'm gonna get the full shebang.

Cole 1:20:45

Yeah, I'm here for that. Like quality.

Joel 1:20:47

Yeah, quality. Um so let's circle back to improv. Let's circle back to improv. The people want to know about improv. Oh, yeah. Um okay, so Dad's Garage, Hannah, you were jamming four times a week. This is gonna be this is gonna be a two-part episode, probably. Tommy

Cage Match: Learning to Lose Improv

Joel 1:21:07

Futch.

Cole 1:21:07

Yeah, Tommy Futch fire me. Uh, and then, you know, we just yeah, kept doing shows. Oh, this was also uh uh pretty huge for me. Dads used to have this thing called cage match.

Joel 1:21:20

Yeah, familiar.

Cole 1:21:21

And when Hannah and I got onto their rookie program, um we were able to start doing cage matches. And the uh the higher ups, the like general company and the ensemble, because there was it was a three-tier system back in the day. Um, the higher-ups uh did a few, but for the most part, they weren't like interested in doing cage match every week. So there was a ton of opportunity, and all you had to do was like have the courage to like submit, you know, like your team. And so Hannah and I were doing this shit all the time, never, never together. Like we were always doing, you know, like different teams with different people, and we went up against each other for years. We went up against each other, and I only beat her one time. Wow, every other time, she just demolished me, she just beat the shit out of me. The audience like would cheer, and it would be like two guys, the probably sexist, and they were just like, yeah, good job, call, and then everyone else in the fucking audience just losing their minds for Hannah, and and like of course, like you know, the other performers that she was performing with. But it was like I dealt with like losing so much, like losing an improv, not even just like doing a bad job, because you can always justify like it wasn't that bad, but I was losing, empirically losing improv again and again again. With voting every week, yeah. Yeah, with the audience, a different audience too. It's not like one guy is you know determining it. I was just losing so much, and I had to like it, I don't think it it didn't necessarily like sting, but it did curate a particular mentality in me, you know, of this like this understanding of you can do a bad job, you know, you can do like not like you can go on stage and it be like you could have done better, you know. And then also that drive of like, oh god, I have to do better, I have to get better, I have to like, I have to figure out like how I can bring myself, what I do, up to a level that will beat this person who is so fucking charming and charismatic that it doesn't matter if her improv is good, she's won the audience, you know, immediately. And so I have to like I had to really the only time I ever beat her was with two worms. Oh wow, yeah. Busted out two worms and two worms, just let the audience know what two worms is. Two worms is me and Meg, the person who initially taught me improv. Uh it's our improv uh format, uh it's our duo. And it is it's musical improv, but it's it's it's kind of more like someone really someone described it really uh accurately. It's like an old timey like traveling entertainment duo. Like you could very easily see us popping out of a wagon and entertaining

Two Worms: Cole and Meg's Traveling Entertainment Duo

Cole 1:24:25

people.

Joel 1:24:25

Yeah, I can tell that's a cool description. Essentially, um Meg is playing guitar, playing um music on the acoustic guitar and singing, while Cole is doing essentially a one-man improv show with Hannah doing the narrating and the playing guitar.

Cole 1:24:45

Is that what is that how you would describe it? I think a more accurate way to describe it would be it's two people doing their own improv at the same time. One is and they're also doing it together because one is doing one is playing guitar, singing, and narrating a story, like telling a story. You're yeah, you're right. The other one is playing all the characters and doing all the physicality. But it is if you watched e just one of them, you would be really entertained either way, but when you watch them together, oh my god, yeah, that's it, that's a beautiful way to describe it.

Joel 1:25:19

Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, because Meg playing in oh my god, hysterical, like the show this past weekend uh was so fun. Was so at the fest. Yeah. Big dog, big dog, big dog fest, big dog face. Um okay, let's circle back.

Physicality vs. Whimsy

Cole 1:25:39

I got good at losing. Yeah, you got good, yeah.

Joel 1:25:41

I got good at losing improv. Yeah, good at losing improv.

Cole 1:25:44

But is that something that comes up often? Losing improv? I feel like I think the the lesson that you learn from that is uh huge. I think it because again, like we don't get that benefit of being, you know, like told that what we're doing is bad um anymore. Everything is good, everyone did a good job. Good job. Oh, everything you did, it was so perfect. But I like interesting, like like fucking metal, like a sword, you know. I was hammered again and again and again, and it forged this thing that's like if something goes wrong on stage, if I'm on stage and I make the wrong choice, I I'm like I'm fucking steel now, you know? Like I the something goes wrong in the middle of a set, I'm not gonna like derail and fall apart. I lost for years. I know how to handle this, I know how to climb back. You know, what's a wrong choice? Um, just like a choice, like a dropped character, uh, a dropped voice, or you know, or or even just like something just super not funny, but you were banking on it, so you get that like long pause of you being like, I said the thing.

Joel 1:27:02

What about it makes it wrong?

Cole 1:27:06

Oh the the I think that's interesting. Um but this goes back to like what I think now, whereas like anything my scene partner does was never wrong, you know? Yeah. But if someone like comes out and they're like, my name's Suzy Monastat. Susie Monastat, yeah. And I'm like, um, I'm like, uh, hey Tiffany, hand me that uh, you know, milk jug over there. You know, like that, I think that that is like really difficult to deal with because now we don't just get to continue.

Joel 1:27:39

We have to address the fact that Yeah, you call me by a different name that I had somebody had already declared.

Cole 1:27:45

Yeah. Um so stuff like that, you know. But I think also, you know, losing an improv and having that feedback made me better, made me like more keyed into the audience on choice. That they will respond to. You know? Yeah. Because you're so desperate to win. Do you still have that? Oh yeah. Yeah. But I and I said this too to Hannah, and she's like, she viciously disagrees. And I stand on this too. That I don't care who the who's in the audience. It could be a people, a group of people, it could be 30 people, it could be fucking 4,000 people, and they all hate me going into the show. They hate me and they love you. And it's me versus you, and we're doing improv. I still think that you give me 30 minutes and I could win them over. And they'll vote for me at the end. I bet I can win them over.

Joel 1:28:46

And that's just like being a being like and that's that competitive football player in there.

Cole 1:28:53

Yeah, it's like the drive to want that, you know, more than it is the belief that that can happen. Yeah, yeah. Why why don't we why don't why don't people, you know, just have a hundred percent confidence in themselves? I'll tell you, Joel, it's because not everybody was as supported in their childhood as I was. That's part of it. And growing up, I was very blessed.

Joel 1:29:13

Yeah, living growing up in a supportive household.

Cole 1:29:16

Totally, 100%.

Joel 1:29:18

Yeah, that's part of it. I mean, that's that's some of the work that I feel like we do in improv classes. Is like in late in life, sometimes we're trying to instill that conf that self-confidence in people to speak up and play and share your ideas and share your voice.

Cole 1:29:32

Yeah.

Joel 1:29:33

You know, yeah. Um, so you got used to losing. And then encage a match. And you were you were in the rookies.

Cole 1:29:45

Yeah, and then I mean, just like it just like anything happens, you you start doing shows and you you figure out like the the way the the reasons people like your style of improv. You know, and for me that was like physicality. I I was I was doing parkour at the time too.

Joel 1:30:04

So yeah, oh physicality, just like a base, yeah. I mean, you know that's your brand, right? Yeah, and it's when people think physical improv, they think Cole Wadsworth.

Cole 1:30:15

And that's really nice of people. And uh and I really like it too. But uh sometimes I find that that really isn't the case. You know, people will will like say physicality because it's the flashier thing. But I think more often than not, what is interesting in the shows that I do really well at is um like the the whimsy of the world, you know? I think I'm drawn to whimsy and I'm drawn to like the the magic that can be created when someone uh object works funny, or they make a choice that builds a rule to the world that's really interesting, and I'll latch on to that, and then the show is really, really funny, and at the end they're like, Oh, that when you stuck your head out the window and and you were like, you know, the wind was hitting you in the face, that was so funny, you know. And they think like, oh, it's a physical guy, but they don't realize that like I had stuck my head inside inside the car window from the outside, and the AC was blowing on my face because someone else had you know done like wind blowing in the car or something like that. And to me, like the whimsy of the world was so interesting, but everyone like really attaches me to physicality, yeah. Which I'm not like of course, I do a lot of physicality, but I wouldn't say it's even like a focal point for me. It's not a it's not a focal point for you.

Joel 1:31:54

I think it's more uh reflex at this point, but you know, yeah, because it's so embedded in you, totally totally. You're not even thinking about it, you're just doing your thing.

Cole 1:32:03

Yeah, I see. Yeah, but there's I mean, there's times, oh actually, I don't know now. No, I don't know really talking about it.

Joel 1:32:11

I love I love how beliefs about yourself are getting debunked just by you sharing out loud.

Cole 1:32:18

Yeah, yeah. There's like certain things I think about myself and I'll say them out loud, and I'm like, that doesn't sound true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is really it it's important in all improv to um uh accept every accept every possibility at any one point could be the most interesting thing.

Be Interesting, Not Funny

Joel 1:32:51

You know? I love that. I love that um perspective. At any moment, any possibility can be the most interesting thing.

Cole 1:32:59

Yeah. Like the way you open a door, you know. I think uh if I could, oh maybe God, I hope this podcast gets really, really, really famous. And um, and and this is what people remember from this episode. Okay. Don't open the door the same. It doesn't matter how you open the door, don't do it the same. Don't twist a knob clockwise and push it open. Don't do that anymore. Something else. It doesn't matter what it is. Use your other hand, have the knob be on the top of the door. I don't care anymore. I'm tired of seeing it. I'm tired of really that's your that's your hot take. Nah, just one that I came up with right now. But I would really like to see people take standard physicalities, do them differently, and then don't talk about it.

Don't Open the Door the Same Way Ever Again

Joel 1:33:55

Oh, I see, I see, I see.

Cole 1:33:57

That's just how doors work, you know? Grab the doorknob that's in the middle on the bottom of the door, twist it, and then open it like a garage door, and then walk in and shut the door and say, Margaret, I've I'm sorry, I forgot Lucy. I I I knew today was the day I was supposed to pick her up, and I forgot.

Joel 1:34:14

Not even acknowledging.

Cole 1:34:15

You just think you don't, yeah, but the audience, you know, now knows okay, that door is a really funny door. And then when you, you know, like you need a gag, you need a joke at the end, you've gotten too serious, and you need a gag or something. Maybe that door is locked, and now how do you unlock the garage door? Kind of thing. It's just like so much room for that kind of stuff.

Joel 1:34:36

Yeah, the whimsy. Yeah, the whimsy of the world. Well, I think I like the what you're wording before, like what unique details. Um, because I think very often people are like trapped or boxed in by the rules of our world in reality. Like they're playing on stage with our rules when like they forget that it's make-believe, they forget that it anything's possible.

Cole 1:35:03

Yeah, and that we need to tell the audience that like we need to explain to them so that they know, like, I didn't mess up. That's just how it is, you know. Yeah, it and it's sentences like this like, what a weird door, or I guess my door opens up like that, you know. Oh, just don't say that. Just yeah, just like live in the world and let it breathe.

Joel 1:35:26

Yeah. The the the UCB uh manual has a word for that um that type of behavior where you're just like almost like breaking the fourth wall a little bit, like say a joke to do with this kind of joke of the environment. Um I forgot what it is, but um another example is like when uh that this is one of my pet peeves, is when there's classically two chairs on stage, but one of those scenes is like, All right, students, come on in, and then there's two people sitting, and then someone's like, Wow, this class doesn't have enough chairs, and I'm just like just fucking be in the class, dude.

Cole 1:36:07

Just shut up about the chairs. You know, I at a jam, it's hard because for them, they've never heard that joke before.

Joel 1:36:17

Oh, yes, you know. Oh, yeah, that's a great point.

Cole 1:36:20

Yes, a lot of them are like firing this joke off, like, oh, this is gonna be so this is gonna fucking kill.

Mixed or Unknown 1:36:26

The roof's coming down with this one.

Cole 1:36:29

Yeah, and so yeah, I have a lot of sympathy for people that do those, and then the audience crickets, and it's like, uh, I'm sorry, pal, you didn't know. You didn't know, you're here 20 years too late, but you didn't know, you know, like so that kind of stuff, you're but you're right, yeah, because that happens on like all levels, you know. The the cliche jokes that will just explain to the audience verbally why this world is different than the world that you understand. And I I think it's so much more interesting if you do a physicality wrong and that is how it's supposed to be done, and you just treat it you don't open a door and say, like, I'm I'm opening the door and it's hinging to the right, you know. Like you just open the door, right? So if it you know, you pick up a coffee cup, but you twist your hand 180 degrees and you grab the coffee cup and you drink it that way, and then two scenes later someone else does the same thing, but no one has addressed it. That's so interesting.

Do Something Weird, Don't Address It

Joel 1:37:37

It's such an easy cheat. So interesting. Yeah, I love that. Do something weird, don't address it. Yeah, do something weird, don't address it.

Cole 1:37:44

And then someone else coffee. Yeah, but what what if if somebody's like, what are you doing? What would you do? Uh then you explain something else. Well, I'm wearing two shoes. Yeah, you're right. Sorry, sorry, this is my first day wearing two shoes. Sorry, you've never seen me wear two shoes before, and then you're gonna go back to the house. Oh, my hat.

Joel 1:38:02

He liked this hat.

Cole 1:38:03

Yeah.

Mixed or Unknown 1:38:05

Okay.

Cole 1:38:06

Yeah, yeah. Oh man. That kind of shit. I do love too. When someone tries to they try to normal, they try to be normal.

Joel 1:38:17

Oh, yeah, yeah. The um voice of reason.

Cole 1:38:20

Yeah, oh yeah. Don't you dare try and do that with me on a stage unless you want to get some of this. It's a battle.

Joel 1:38:26

It becomes a battle. Yeah. Yeah. I do love that though. I think it's entertaining. I mean I love a good voice of reason versus the the ridiculous thing in the scene. Oh, could be is a really fun formula for a scene.

Cole 1:38:42

Because you can always just say that they're not wearing pants. You can always say that, you know. So if anytime anyone it's the classic, it's so easy too. What are you doing with no pants on? Yeah. Why are you holding that cup weird? Why aren't you wearing pants? It's the easiest comeback. Easy. Oh god, when this podcast gets super famous, and then we're just seeing them. Everyone's easy.

Joel 1:39:04

That's gonna be every week at the gym. Why don't you have pants on?

Mixed or Unknown 1:39:11

People will be like, Joel, you have to stop the podcast. You have to stop it. You're you're pushing the the the waves have been propped too aggressively.

Cole 1:39:20

Yeah, that's beautiful. What's your what's your go-to cheat? Cheat? What do you mean cheat? Like when you're on stage and what's like a a cheat that you use?

Joel 1:39:31

I'd like to make a scene uh easier? What do you what do you mean?

Cole 1:39:37

Cheat. That's interesting.

Joel 1:39:42

Because a cheat I feel like is implying doing something that's like a shortcut or hack. Do you accomplish something, you know what I mean? Like a cheat? Oh, interesting. Okay.

Cole 1:39:55

I guess that's why uh that's what I'm processing. Did you ever cheat in school? Cheat on a test? Yeah. Have you cheated on a partner?

Joel 1:40:04

Yeah. Oh man. And an older version of Joel, yeah.

Cole 1:40:08

Yeah, same. Yeah. Um, yeah. And it's, you know, like something I hold a lot of shame about. Yeah, same. But moving forward, I I like I look back at that person and I'm so grateful where I've come from them. So yeah, I can totally I saw that I saw the sadness in your eyes when you said that. Yeah. Oh, you're such a good person. Vacuum heart.

Mixed or Unknown 1:40:32

Yeah.

Cole 1:40:32

But that's interesting because I didn't peg you as like I was like, oh wow, Joel's always been a really good person. No.

Joel 1:40:38

I I mean, when we talk about the the jock days, uh, I was I was a I was a jerk. I was a I was a bully. Oh I would say like the first half of high school. I had I I had a character arc towards the end of high school. Cool. Um because I was like a jerk, a cliche jerk, you know, top of the food chain type of jock in the cool in part of the cool kids. Yeah, 6'2 with a beard. Um, and then but at this at one point, I was also the class clown. And at that point, like freshman year, sophomore year, my my humor was at the expense of others, picking on others. And then I had this one moment I remember it was a group. This I it's like, man, it's so vivid this memory. A bunch of us were hanging out, and one one of my friends at the time, or I say friends, like whatever, and uh was like me now. Well, just because like we'll listen to the story and be like, would that would would a friend make ask you to do that thing? Oh sure and be like, Joel, you see that see that old guy across the street? Throw like throw this newspaper at him. No, yeah, you did and at the at a uh previous phase, I was the I was the kid that like you dare them to do whatever and I would do it. Oh sure, sure, sure. Right? So and then it's this moment, and then it I had and then my thought, I'm like, I don't want to do that thing, and I and so like but what how what I verbally was like, no, you do it if you think it's funny, you do it. And then he was like, Oh, oh, pussy, Joel's pussying out, blah blah blah blah blah. And I was like, No, I don't want to do it. You're the one who thinks it's funny, so why don't you do it? Yeah, are you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and then it was like whatever, and then it became like whatever, whatever, whatever. Okay, Joel, whatever you forget it for sure, and then and then it it this thing clicked for me like, oh, I don't have to be a dick. I don't have to be a dick to be funny.

Cole 1:42:32

That is crazy, actually.

Joel 1:42:34

And then this this arc started happening, uh getting into my junior and senior year, totally flipped. I actually became just started doing uh more committed to theater, musical theater, and now I'm having multiple different groups of friends. Um, and I'm like, oh man, these people used to pick on are fucking awesome, they're amazing people. And I so I had to deal with all this like shame and regret, like, okay, let me not, I'm not, I'm done picking on people. Um and then I actually yes, so then I so then I started becoming friends with everyone and then realizing that I'm funny without needing to pick on people. Okay, yeah, and I still won class clown senior year. Oh if this speaks to the the completion of the character arc, actually, I won both class clown and in my school we had this award called most pull with the faculty. I don't know if that's common, but what that means is essentially like most liked by teachers, also.

Cole 1:43:35

Oh, for sure. So you were actually funny, yeah.

Joel 1:43:38

I I became actually funny because not relying on exploiting other people to be funny need taught me, like, oh, I can be funny you doing other things.

Cole 1:43:50

Yeah, I bet so often that's the case. I bet people that are really good at bullying people could just be really funny. Yeah, I bet.

Joel 1:43:57

I mean anybody could be. I mean, everyone has a sense of humor, they just need to uncover what that their style of humor is.

Hot Take: Can Anyone Become Funny?

Cole 1:44:03

Yeah.

Joel 1:44:05

Cole gave me a look.

Cole 1:44:07

Cole gave me a look, like, shut the hell up. Why does everybody have to be everything? You know what I mean? It's like some people can not just be funny. Some people can just be not not be funny. Yeah, I think that's fine too. I you know, I don't know.

Joel 1:44:18

We we like put yeah, okay, okay, yes. But I I guess all I'm saying is everyone can be can be if they want to. You don't think that's true? You think do you think there's individuals that just cannot be funny, can't learn it?

Cole 1:44:37

Uh hot take. I think I think comedy, I think being funny, you know, it I don't think it's as easy as like learning. I don't think you can wrong. I don't know if I've ever met someone that I'm like that was not funny, took a bunch of classes and became funny. I don't think that's true.

Joel 1:44:55

Well, I don't think it's classes. I don't think it's just classes, I think it's also like um exposure and experien in life experiences.

Cole 1:45:03

I think it I think it can only happen accidentally. I don't think anyone can intentionally become funny unless they were funny or they accidentally become funny. I just don't, I don't know. I've never seen it. You never what do you mean you never seen it? I've never I've never known someone that wasn't funny and became funny. I've never known that.

Joel 1:45:24

You're you're you're thinking of it right now because okay, because I'm thinking about I'm thinking about students in improv classes and they come to level one and they're shy and maybe uh introverted. And I've I I can recall students being like, I'm not funny, I'm just doing this for work, or I'm doing this for this reason or that reason. And then when I see them in class start to come out of their shell and get more comfortable, they're funny.

Cole 1:45:52

Yeah, but I bet they were funny to like their family that they were.

Joel 1:45:56

But dude, that's what I'm saying. Everyone's funny, it's just underneath that you gotta uncover it.

Cole 1:46:00

No, I think there's some people that are like completely comfortable and they're like super confident and they come out and they're not funny. You know what? And then they train and they train, they take their classes, and they end up still not being funny. Do you want to fight? It's like that's what you get.

Joel 1:46:16

Come here. Give me your tooth, give it to me.

Cole 1:46:23

What are you gonna do with it?

Joel 1:46:24

I'm keeping it as a souvenir.

Cole 1:46:26

Where are you gonna put it? Don't tell me, I'll steal it, idiot. I'm just gonna get it right back. Or I'll take one of your teeth, replace it with my tooth, and you won't even know. What? Do I have your teeth? We have the exact same teeth. Our teeth look identical.

Joel 1:46:43

Okay, so you asked me about circle back to improv. Go back to improv. We talked about bullying, our character arc, oh man, we we diverge from improv.

Cole 1:46:53

Yeah. Well, this let's connect it to improv. Cool, cool, cool. Because I think anything really can be connected to improv. Yeah, sure. Yeah, because life experiences are what dictate a lot of a person's ability to do improv. Um, you think about like comedy and being funny and and stuff, and and we ever everyone's gonna agree that like good improv is not about being funny, you know. Everyone will agree

Joel's Character Arc from Bully to Class Clown

Cole 1:47:20

to to that, you know. It's just like and I think that's true, and I think that we as um improvisers should be striving less to be funny and more to be interesting, and I think that yes, I think that translates you know, as comedy sometimes, you know, because maybe we'll laugh. I can't connect to the Wi-Fi network. Hold on. I think being interesting can sometimes translate as funny to an audience because they'll smile, you know, but I think that reaction is just joy. I think like you can elicit joy from an audience by doing something interesting without it being funny, and this is so true to my goals on stage, because and this is uh actually um something, another thing that I tell people all the time, and I do stand on this, and I think this is more universally good.

Joel 1:48:20

Um yeah, it isn't this the seventh time that Cole says I stand on this, yeah.

Cole 1:48:24

And I don't even think that's how you're supposed to say that phrase. Yeah, but you're standing on it. But I'm standing on it. I stand on this. Um everyone should create a goal for what they think a good improv set is that they've done, you know, like um like create a very tangible goal of if I accomplish this goal, then I did a good job. You know, so often people will come up and they'll be like, I think I did a bad job, I don't think I did a good job, and then improv, I don't think that was a good thing, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, well, what are you qualifying that by? Right. And it's always like, well, it just wasn't that funny, you know, like uh, and and then they'll explain their choices and stuff, and and then it didn't get a laugh. And I'm like, dude, that's a crazy, that's a crazy specific thing to a try and accomplish, try and accomplish in a subjective art form with an audience of people whom have lived an entire life and then had a day today, all of which you cannot know leading up. You know, they're all factors to what is gonna make them laugh. Exactly. But what you can control are things in your mind, you know, that you can like check off. For me, it's do something that the audience has, you know, like never seen before. And sure, that's even that subjective because they're an audience and maybe they've seen it be but you can like pretty I can pretty safely say I can go out and just say like I don't know. Absolutely absurd thing. Do a weird physicality. And then at the end of the day, be like, no way. No way has someone seen someone plop their eyeballs into a blender, blend it, drink that juice, and now I have eyes in my toes. You know, no way has someone seen that. And I've accomplished

The Greatest Improv Set Cole Ever Saw

Cole 1:50:21

that.

Joel 1:50:21

Yeah, and now we've all imagined it. So we've seen it in our mind's eye now.

Cole 1:50:27

Now you gotta ask yourself, were the eyes on the top of the toes, which would still like give me vision rather than on the bottom, and so I have to walk different.

Joel 1:50:37

No, I didn't imagine either of that. I imagined them on the front of the toe, kind of like pointing outwards. So like you had vision of the ground. So you so it's like the camera view, like of an RC car, like you know, when it's if it's moving forward. Yours was the right answer. Both of mine were in Maine. Yeah, both yours were just so dumb. Like, what do you mean?

Cole 1:51:01

So it's looking either looking back at you or the ground, you're nuts. And then now a series of questions. Yeah. You know, why did he make that smoothie? To what purpose? Was that the intended result?

Joel 1:51:15

Yeah, be well, he knows that the the eye's gonna grow back. Did he? Yeah, be I think so. Well, in my in my reality, the eye grows back, and this is like a routine.

Cole 1:51:29

Like a routine. Every day, every day he does it.

Joel 1:51:33

Now, I don't know if it's every day. I didn't say that. It could be once a month.

Cole 1:51:38

Could be oh like this. Yeah. Yeah. So interesting. And that wasn't that wasn't a funny choice at all. You know, on its own, not funny, but it was interesting.

Joel 1:51:52

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I I love the uh this is something that um I heard this for the f I unfortunately for the first time. Why and why did I say unfortunately? I guess not unfortunately. I just I guess I guess because I heard it kind of later. I heard it in conservatory, this phrase about interesting versus funny. For the first time conservatory from Tim Stoltenberg I was doing a class, and I it really stood out to me too, about like not being concerned with funny. Um just just be interesting, just like do something interesting. It doesn't stop, don't focus on jokes and humor, just focus on being interesting.

Stop Qualifying Your Improv by Laughter

Cole 1:52:35

Um yeah, and and it's it's fun too because um it doesn't have to be absurd. Yeah, what I just did was absurd.

Joel 1:52:44

Right, you know, but yeah, it doesn't have to be absurd. You're absolutely right. Um, because if something is, and this I think this is what trips up improvisers too. The lack of a laugh I feel like builds tension for people off stage, but it doesn't, it's not a signal that anything is wrong. Yeah, and I and I feel like yeah, because something can be so I've watched an improv scene and it's like that I'm loving so interest that I'm so invested and interested in, but maybe I'm not laughing yet, but they're they're performing, they're listening, they're engaging, the scene is unfolding, but it doesn't mean anything's wrong because nobody's laughing. And I think people kind of spaz out, they short circuit on stage when there's too much silence, and then they you know get back. Yeah.

Cole 1:53:33

100%. The greatest improv set that I ever saw was done by this French guy and this Norwegian girl that were friends and they do improv, but they live in different countries and they travel doing this improv. Um, and they do mini Pixar movies, is their format. And they came to uh dad's at one point, and uh this is for like an international festival that dad's. Oh damn. And it was it was absolutely incredible. The two the twos that really stuck out was this one and then this Greek performance um troupe. But this one, it was so interesting, very minimal laughter. The laughter was like sparse and very brief and just kind of chuckly, but everyone in the theater was watching with like no one blinked the entire time. Everyone's jaw was just open the whole fking time, just watching these people be uh like a this guy folding himself up into a into a paper airplane and flying over, and then this other person, you know, being scissors and they're like cutting the air, and you just so desperately don't want that paper to get cut by those scissors, and the paper makes it, and you're just thinking to yourself, you're not outwardly making noise, but you're thinking, like, oh my god, I'm so grateful that that paper didn't get cut up by those scissors. And I'll never forget that. I didn't I barely laughed at all, and I'll never forget that whole set. Wow. So, people again stop qualifying your improv by the laughter that you receive, stop you know, strive striving for that goal, and instead like be honest in the moment. The second you find something interesting, follow that hit the gas, go as hard as you can into that. That's the that's the juice.

Mixed or Unknown 1:55:25

Hit the gas, hit the guess, yeah, fucking Joe doing that gay shit over here, huh? And I got all these newspapers for sale.

Joel 1:55:36

Wow, you're just combining all my old traumatic memories. Wow, yeah. Yeah, the same guy, one character. It's a nightmare. Um, yeah, and I think I think about like the two infamous performers or whatever. I say that with air quotes for listeners. Um TJ and Dave, um who perform, and sometimes their sets are not funny, but they're always engaging and interesting. Have you ever seen TJ and Dave? I can't remember. I got some I got some recordings of them.

Cole 1:56:15

Make a face that one of them makes. Make your face look like theirs. Okay, one second.

Mixed or Unknown 1:56:27

If either of them saw that, I think they'd be offended. They'd be offended. They'd be offended. I did not do justice. I did not do justice.

Joel 1:56:35

Uh um, dude, you know, it's been I I'm loving this, I'm loving this um interview. Yeah. Um, I feel like we're not done yet. Okay. Do you how what's your bandwidth like? It's been two hours. Oh my god, are you kidding me? Yeah. I feel like we have we haven't finished your journey. Two hours? Yeah. But wait, we did banter for maybe five, ten. Oh, yeah. Right? Like the stuff that Matt's gonna cut. For sure. Um, but I'm down to chat. I'm okay. And you can also this will be a two-parter, this will be a two-part episode for sure. But I still feel like we haven't gotten to you to the present day for your story.

Cole 1:57:20

Is it is it supposed to be like the journey and then it's done?

Joel 1:57:23

No, it's supposed to be the journey, and then we then we freestyle. But in this what's happening in this interview is like we're telling your story, but then adding the little tangents throughout.

Mixed or Unknown 1:57:34

Yeah.

Joel 1:57:35

But usually it's I guess there's no structure, I guess. We could dovetail whenever we can like whatever.

Mixed or Unknown 1:57:40

Turn tape over.

Joel 1:57:45

I want to say thank you to Matt Isaacs. Thank you so much, Matt, for editing these episodes. Matt is a talented and kind member of the Atlanta improv community. If anyone out there has any audio editing or song mixing needs, please reach out to me at Joel at the joyoffimprov.com. I'll connect you with Matt and get you on your way to getting some clean, fresh audio. If you're enjoying the podcast and you want to support and keep this podcast going, you can support in one of two ways. You can leave a five-star review. And if you do, please leave an improv topic that you want us to discuss or perhaps a question for a future guest. Another way to support the podcast is to give a monetary contribution on our Ko-Fi page. Anything helps, a dollar, five dollars does not matter. Anything helps in keeping the podcast going, you can find the link to contribute in our Instagram or in the link in the episode description. Thank you so so much for listening. It means so much that you're here. See you next time and scene.