Abel Arias - Part 1

In part one of this two-part episode, I sit down with Abel Arias, an experienced veteran improviser in Atlanta, teacher at Dad's Garage Theatre. Abel takes us through his journey from watching Whose Line Is It Anyway as a kid, to children's theater, to training at UCB, Groundlings, and Comedy Sports in LA, to eventually finding his home in Atlanta's improv community.

We get into the differences between character-based and game-based improv, and why acting and improv are really the same thing. Abel shares what it's been like to navigate life as a working artist in a capitalistic world, from holding down multiple jobs to performing at Universal Studios Hollywood, where he met his wife and landed his first agent.

We also have an honest conversation about what success really looks like in improv and in art. Abel breaks down why success is subjective, why comfort matters more than being "better," and why the tools we teach in class are just that — tools, not rules. We talk about the importance of being present, the Michael Jordan quote that changed how Abel thinks about performing, and why the only real rule on stage is keeping each other safe.

Stay tuned for part two.

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Host: Joel Camargo - Insta - @joelc1225
Audio Editor: Matt Issacs - Insta - @mattisaacs20

Transcript

Introduction

Joel 0:01

Welcome to another episode of the Joy of Improv Podcast. I am your host, Joel Camargo, and I'm so excited to tell you that today's guest is Abel Arias. Abel is an experienced veteran improviser in the Atlanta scene. He's a teacher at Dad's Garage Theater and also runs their corporate programs. Abel is so fun to watch play, is one of the most physical players I've seen in the improv scene, and is always bringing so much positivity, silliness, and fun into his play. Abel and I talk about what it's like to try to create art in this heavily capitalistic time and society, and what it feels like to be a struggling artist that's just trying to pursue improv and art and how to balance life and art. We also talk about what it means to find success in improv and having practical realistic expectations when seeking or looking to feel success in improv. We also talk about different improv philosophies and how we both view those different philosophies and how we incorporate them into our teaching. Abel also talks about space work or environment work or pantomiming. It's a huge part of Abel's play that he loves to lean into when he plays, and we have a great conversation about it. This is gonna be a two-part episode. This episode is packed, packed, packed with beautiful insights and beautiful learnings on Abel's background. Sit tight, enjoy this episode. Here's my conversation with Abel. What's up, dude? What's up? Welcome to the podcast, Abel.

Meet Abel Arias

Abel 1:50

I'm very happy to be. I'm very happy to be here. I'm very happy to have you here. Yeah, man. I don't know why I turned it back to the video. Shout out to Well, it's coming to America. In my in my head, it was coming to America. I was a vampire.

Joel 1:59

That was mine. So we were um I'm so glad to have you here. I'm so glad to learn about your breadth of experience with improv. I love your you as a teacher. I've seen you teach, and you have such a gift with keeping the room calm, excited, relaxed, playful. Yep. And I feel like your play style too is so fun to watch. It's so energetic and so silly and so playful. Thank you. Can we just end the podcast right there? Um, we're done. Everybody uh thank Abel. Thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Um, but what I love to start with is just hearing about your background. How did you get to improv? Oh boy.

How Abel Found Improv Through Whose Line and Children's Theater

Abel 2:40

Um, I first started watching Whose Line Is It Anyway? When we moved, when I was like nine or ten years old, we moved to an area in the 20th century. And uh the area that I moved to had Comedy Central. Before I did not have Comedy Central, and then I had Comedy Central, and it was a whole, whole new world. Like what SNL was on every day. It was like summertime. It was my first summer away from home, like home basically alone. My parents were crazy at 10 years old. We're like, you're fine, you're fine by yourself alone, new neighborhood. That's a Latin. I feel like that's a Latin American thing, maybe. Yeah, Latina. Yeah, no te preocupes. Yep. But my parents didn't speak uh Spanish to me. Uh it's a whole other podcast. Um, so I watched a lot of Whose Line Is It Anyway, the classic old school Colin Mockery, Ryan Styles, Greg Proops. Um the British version was the original, the OG version, and I was like, this is incredible. Um and and I just kept watching and loved it. So I would rewrite like sketch, and then SNL was airing all the time, so I'd write rewrite SNL sketches for school projects, and then did community theater. One day my mom was like, Hey, we're going to an we're going to a tryout, because her only frame of reference was sports. We're going to a theater tryout, a play tryout. Let's go. I was like, Okay. And I went and I showed up, and the lady was like, Do you have anything prepared? And I was like, What are you talking about? I was like 12 years old.

Joel 4:10

And your mom was when I was just like, let's just go to this thing. She didn't give you a heads up.

Abel 4:14

She knew it was like a theater play thing. Okay. A theater, it was for the theater or for a play. It was a play triad, I think she called it. Okay. A play triad. I'm like, okay, whatever. And then, yeah, the director, Monica McLean, shout out to Monica McLean. Um, it was San Carlos Children's Theater, and uh nothing prepared. So I sang part of the national anthem. Did a show called Sagebrush, was a villain, was Black Bart the villain. Anyway, that's a long-winded way of saying that's when I first started really exposed to improv because we did warm-ups. We did like Zip Zaps Up and we did little warm-up games like that.

Joel 4:51

Yeah, yeah. Children's theater is what I'm learning, and that's coming up on my feed right now, because I follow a lot of improv and also just theater stuff. Uh a lot of children's theaters are doing all improv, improv-based exercises. Are we doing the classroom?

The Roots of Modern Improv in Children's Education

Abel 5:07

That's why we have improv. Yeah. It's because of children. That's where modern improvs emanated from that. Yeah. From from keeping, as you know, as most of you know, listening to this. Um, and so I was like hooked, did theater. Anytime we could do improv games was like all about it. I remember being in middle schools, like trying to copy the games that I saw on on Who's Line. It was like, oh, hey, um, have a conversation with me, but I'm only gonna talk to you in song lyrics. Stupid, nerdy shit like that, right? Yeah. And then all the kids all the kids you're like, oh, a bell's coming. I mean, yeah, you have to play improv games. There was some that really found me annoying, I'm sure. And then I just kept doing theater, uh, and then high school just kept doing theater. In college, kept doing theater. I have a theater degree at UC Santa Cruz. But that whole time it was just like improv was just kind of like in the background. And then when I moved to LA in 2004, which is crazy to think about. Um, moved to LA in 2004, like a few like a month or two after moving to LA, I got into improv, like just started you know, going to

Moving to LA

Abel 6:22

classes.

Joel 6:22

Yeah, and at that time, the improv scene was already big in LA?

Abel 6:27

I mean, I don't like that's the thing. UCB did not exist yet in LA. Um, I believe, let's see if it's 2004, it might have just barely have been getting started. The show may have the TV show, right, with Amy Polar and them, may have been on the air. Yeah. Um but everything else, you know, the groundlings of course existed, comedy sports existed, IO West existed. Uh I ended up, of course, at the LA LA Connection Comedy Theater in Sherman Oaks, whose claim to fame was like Matthew Perry, rest in peace, went to like a class. And so they like exploited the shit out of that. Sure. Pay to play situation. But despite that, I learned a lot. I learned a lot. I was there for almost two years. And and pay to play as in like you have to pay to take all the cards. 75 bucks a month. Yeah. Oh, subscription. Yes, 75 bucks a month every week, like Wednesday nights, you were show you showed up. Oh, literally pay to play. Literally pay to play. But it was like classes and shows. Yeah. So it was it was kind of shitty, but at the same time, it was like not a bad situation because I got so much rep, so many reps, did learn, um, for better or worse, did learn things. Um, but got so many performances, like so much improv every week, every week, every week, every week. Twice, you know, sometimes twice a week. And then after a couple years, it was like, what am I doing here? Uh, and then in like oh six, I left that UCB. I did the I did UCB and Groundlings at the same time. At the same time. At the same time. There were certain overlap. There was some there were certain levels where I'll like twice a week. It was like going to groundlings on Tuesdays or whatever day it was, and then UCB on whatever day

Taking UCB and Groundlings at the Same Time

Abel 8:18

it was.

Joel 8:18

Yeah. Well, what was that experience like doing both at the same time? Because there are different like philosophies, right?

Abel 8:24

It was great. It was great because it really helped you adapt adapt for you know, not to be not to be punny or anything. Like you really got to learn, all right, I'm here, here's my style here. I'm here, here's this style here.

Joel 8:40

Yeah, interesting. How would you describe the the groundlings style versus the UCB?

Groundlings vs. UCB: Character-Based vs. Game-Based Improv

Abel 8:45

Groundlings is more character-based improv. And then UCB is very um game. Right. Game. Game-based improv.

Joel 8:55

And character-based, as in that's like their main, their main character.

Abel 8:58

As in your approach, is like come in with a character, come in with like a point of view, come in with like a want. And it's all like very sketch-based. I mean, Pee-wee Herman, Paul Rubens came out of there, Phil Hartman came out of there, and that was all about characters, right? He's like, You got to bring these characters to life, and through the improvisation, you you found more things to flush out the character more. Um, and so um Mindy Sterling was one of the teachers there. You probably know her as Frau Farbisna from the Austin Powers movies. Um, she was delightful and um was like, Yeah, man, just this is your point of view, and just encourage that point of view and and just more questions, did a lot of like interview type exercises and stuff like this. Yeah.

Joel 9:50

I hear the the character stuff, the point of view, and I it overlaps so much, I feel like, with acting principles and so much of what we teach in improv too. Um, about the the emotion, the the point of view, the perspective.

Acting and Improv Are the Same Thing

Abel 10:03

I think the biggest shortcoming of actors and improvisers, if you want to even separate the two, is looking at them separately. I think the strongest improvisers are actors, and I think the strongest actors are improvisers.

Joel 10:18

Yeah, I I 100% agree. It's so funny because the acting and improv came up in the um with Anna Brno Riley recently in the in our the rec episode also. I feel like that's gonna be a recurring theme is touching on acting. Not I was gonna say acting versus improv, but that they're actually joint. They're actually they completely overlap.

Abel 10:39

If you have a Venn picture of it, does everyone know what a Venn diagram is? It's the two circles, two circles, and they overlap and they overlap. So the part that doesn't overlap between improv improvised acting and scripted acting is like a little crescent moon, like the tiniest crescent moon, and on each crescent moon is furniture and a script. Everything everything else overlaps. For those of you that are listening that worked with me at uh at Drama Inc. for improv for actors. That's what we we went over that so like we would I would just like hammer it home, like you guys gotta like y'all have to stop thinking of these separate entities. Yes, they are the same thing, excuse my language, but they are the same thing. Yeah, the only difference is furniture, literally a set and a script. That's it.

Joel 11:30

I I I believe the same, and it's so interesting because some of the improv books that I read refer to well, what some people say improvisers, some books just call them actors. Yeah, it's like uh the actors do this. If you're explaining a game, the actors do this, the actors do that. What I tell you actors, it's always referring to the class, the students, the performers as actors, not improvisers, most of the time.

Abel 11:56

That's great. I love that. Yeah, I love that. I kind of take a pick, I kind of I take a page out of uh Shakespeare and Spike Lee's book of calling everybody players. You know, everybody's everybody's a player. Yeah, everyone's a player. Everyone's a player, their own place. So, um, but yeah, that there's no separation in my brain. There's zero separation other than those two little everything else is everything else that you strive for to be a quote unquote good improviser, um, is the same thing you strive for to be a quote unquote good actor.

How Do You Help Improvisers Build Acting Skills?

Joel 12:30

The commitment, the emotion, right? It's just it's the same things. Um, if somebody's coming into improv from a traditional just improv route, what do you think is a way to for the community to kind of give them, help them tune some of those acting skills?

Abel 12:48

That's a really good question. Um I think it really depends on the person's comfort level. Um, and I think for better or worse, my style and approach in terms of performing and teaching is very much what do you think? What do you like? What does that person think? What does that person want to do?

unknown 13:10

Right.

Abel 13:10

What do you want to do? Because there's not just one route. Oh gosh, you're right. If there were, if there was just one route, we wouldn't be here right now. Yep. I'd be sitting in a beautiful craftsman home, two-story craftsman home, five bedrooms, you know what I'm saying? Nothing too crazy, but nice and you know, separate playroom for my kids, separate office workroom for me and my turntables and my self-tapes. You know what I'm saying? Like, if there was that, like, oh, I just followed these steps and I've quote unquote made it. Well, here I am. That if that existed, none of us, there would be no such thing as a struggling artist. So when people, I love that question to how does the community rally around someone that maybe wants to get uh acting chops up in their improv? I love that question. It really just depends on well, what does that person want? What does that person what's already comfortable for that person on stage? Do they feel comfortable with space work? Do they feel comfortable with character work? Do they feel comfortable being clever and coming up with, you know, you know, uh, as as the uh second city Keith Johnstone way would put it, would be gagging. Like, do you feel little little quips and things? What do you feel comfortable with? And then you're using that strength to get your other things that are weaker stronger, right? So if you look at it from like a fitness perspective, if you love to run or jog, then you're gonna use your sort of cardio stamina in some way to help you with like you know, pull-ups and upper body and core stuff, however, that might translate.

Everyone Has a Role: The Basketball Team Analogy

Joel 14:51

Yeah, I like that. You look at your current attributes, your current skill set, and then what needs refinement, what needs polishing. Right.

Abel 14:58

Because even your weaknesses are your is a strength, like even there's there's some form, there's some element of strength in a weakness, right? Like if we're sticking with fitness, or even baseball, I love baseball, I'm a huge baseball fan, right? So let's say, like let's say my arm strength, maybe I don't have the strongest arm, but I know how to throw the ball already, and so it's not like I have to completely learn how to throw the ball. I can still develop strength because I know what I'm doing throwing, and then it might just be a little tweak here of like, well, you're already doing this, so now incorporate your legs more or whatever it might be.

Joel 15:38

But you get my drift. Yep, 100%. I kind of use a sports analogy that I feel like is pretty universal, even for people who don't know sports, especially level one classes. In even in level one, people will often I feel like care too much about how well they're doing, how funny they're being in class, and people in after just a few classes, which is essentially a few hours of doing this, people be like, I don't feel like I'm not getting it. Be like, you're doing great. And people are like, some people are there, they're funnier, they're quicker, they're comparing themselves to other students. And I'll be like, everyone, I look at it like a basketball team. Everyone has a different role. There's different everyone has different strength as a performer, as an improviser, as an actor. Every role is needed on a team. So if you don't believe that you're fast enough with these quicky these quick jokes making everybody laugh, maybe that that's fine. And that's not that's not what's the most important thing. You could be someone who comes in and grounds the scene. Or is great at developing the platform, is great at buttoning up scenes, yeah, editing. Like there's so many other beautiful ways to to contribute, especially in a team setting. Um, so I loved you mentioning all the people with different skills, skill sets.

"Umwelt": How Every Performer Experiences the World Differently

Abel 16:59

Yeah. There's a new term. I think we may have talked about this before, but I can't remember. But there's this new term I just learned called umwelt. And I don't know if that's how you pronounce it, but it's umwelt U-M-W-E-L-T. And it's specific to biology, and it's like a hundred-year-old term, I guess. Um, and I wish I could remember the name of the German scientist that sort of coined it, but it's basically defined as how a species experiences the world through their senses. And it sounded like I was wasted when I said experiences there. But how a species experiences their world through their senses, right? Because, you know, snakes are different than whales, they're different than dolphins, are different than birds and eagles and things like that. And we can only under try and understand as much as we can about how they experience it, but we'll never experience it the way we they will. And that a hundred million percent applies to any group of performers, any group of players, whether it's scripted acting or improvised acting, regardless. I can never experience a scene through your eyes. Never. I can only understand it as best as I can. Yeah. And so you we, I think, as a community, especially the education community, people that are interested in teaching, get fulfilled with teaching, etc. I think, I think that that element um can be leaned into even more as much as possible. Um, because there's no like there's everybody's different, like you just said with the basketball analogy. Everybody, you got a point guard who's faster. They're not gonna be in the paint, they're not gonna be boxing out for rebounds, right? They're gonna probably be a better shooter, right? Than the center. The center's slower, the center's taller, right? So it's like, let's, you know, every like you just said, everybody's got their roles. Why are we prescribing anything? You know?

Joel 18:56

Mm-hmm. 100%. Uh, you mentioned before about a struggling artist being a struggling artist. Do you feel that you still carry that label?

What Does It Mean to Be a Struggling Artist?

Abel 19:07

I mean, objectively man, that's a that's a loaded. How much time do we got, dude? We got as much time as we need. Yeah, I I don't like the label, but I guess if you have to label, I don't like labels really, but if you have to label, sure. Yeah, man. When are you like when are you not struggling? Yeah. Not to sound all downy, you know. I mean, it's real. But I feel unless you're unless you're Denzel Washington, Jessica Chastain. Yeah, unless you you've made it right, right? Unless you're literally, you know, unless acting or your art is comfortably paying your bills, then then you're struggling. Then you're like making ends meet. There's Did you ever watch In Living Color when you were younger? And uh In Living Color, pioneering sketch show. And uh by the way, you know, Keenan Ivory Wayans, uh the whole Wayans family, and you know, Jim Carrey got his his start on there, his big break on there as well. Um, but there was a sketch on in Living Color called Hey Mon. Hey Mon in a Jamaican family. Okay, and the whole premise of the skull premise of the sketch was how many jobs every family member had. You know, so like dad comes home, it's it's it's uh who is it? Damon is Damon Wayans. He's wearing like a pile, one of the episodes, he's wearing like a pilot's uniform. Oh, I'm so tired from work. You know what I'm saying? He's tired from work, and then he sees his son on the couch. What you doing on the couch there for? Right, whatever. Uh forgive him, the terrible Jamaican accent. Um, and um the guy, the son is complaining about it. He's like, What you complain when I was your age? I was a gardener, a postal worker, I worked, I was a milkman, and like he lists off like 12 jobs that he did when he and it's like I think about my acting career, I think about my career, I think about the majority of my adult life, and that's literally that sketch. I've been a this, you know, I've been um, let's see. I've been a library page, I've been a tennis coach, I've been an after school sports coach, I've been a Lego technician, I've been uh a performer, I've been a tour guide, I've been, you know, luckily enough, I only had a like I only had I only held down like I don't know, six or seven gigs in my 15 years at in in in LA. But only the first maybe four years were like, oh, this and this and this and this and this, and then it and then after only like a first few years, I found a I got like two or three gigs that sustained me while I could still go audition and stuff like this. So those were paying the bills. If I was blessed enough to to land a roll, mainly. Commercials, those would really be great. And honestly, in 15 years in LA, I think I maybe had two years where acting well, more than two years, actually, because I was acting at Universal Studios. So, um, but if you don't count Universal, you know, booking commercials and things like this, there was maybe two years where those paid the bills and I didn't need to do anything else.

Joel 22:25

Oh.

Abel 22:26

Yeah.

Joel 22:27

That's incredible.

Abel 22:27

So struggling artists, that's the that's the very, very, very long-winded answer to struggling artists.

Capitalism and Its Impact on Art

Joel 22:32

I feel like capitalism doesn't make it easy for people to focus on their art.

Abel 22:39

Well, that's the point, right? That's the point. It's not supposed to be easy to f it. Well, cap the the point of capitalism isn't art, right? It's money, yeah. It's profit. And we're just we're just cogs. We're just expendable cogs, essentially. Yeah.

Joel 22:58

It it it um it's kind of sad. We've spoken about this before, but it almost feels like also capitalism leaks into the art too, because we are like trying to monetize everything.

Abel 23:09

I thought about this earlier, uh yesterday, I think, or the day before. I realized that I think art is the only thing where humans simultaneously let me go back. I think art is the only thing that simultaneously needs humans and also needs to do away with humans at the same time. Because humans are the ones that fucked it up anyway. We we that fucked up art, yeah. What else is fucking up art other than humans? Money's not walking around with legs and a brain, right? Humans are trying to exploit it, trying to make money. Yeah, the whole, you know, every other, every other, you know, progressive satellite progressive anything is, you know, pissing on AI and all this. And it's all because they're that's anti-the AI part of art, right? And it's like, yeah, well, who do you think created AI? It doesn't computer just fucking just emanate from a fucking bacteria pool like Terminator T1000, just like it just humans programmed it, humans made this thing, and so humans decided we can make money off of it. Humans, this this is the reason why acting is called the second oldest profession, right? They decided, oh, we can make money off this as performance, we can make money off of this, we can sustain, which is all well and good. And at the same time, all of the shit comes up that is too problematic to even deal with. Because then why are you doing it? Um, you know, especially out here in Atlanta, no knock, no shade to any actors who may be listening. Um, but you know, a lot of the acting community or a lot of the Atlanta community that dabbles in acting literally just wants to be famous, literally just wants to be on TV.

Joel 25:01

I think that I think that's a lot of people. That's a lot of people. Yeah, and not just Atlanta, I mean, I think that's just a lot of people as well.

Abel 25:07

And that's like, okay, why? What do you what the what do you want to be famous for? That's a legitimate question. I'm not trying to be an asshole, but at the same time, um that's that's kind of what it perpetuates, right? And then you have all these other things that fall in line because and and that it just so much, so much becomes problematic about okay, we can make money off of this, right? Um because you know, going back to your original points, like capitalism has really fucked up this idea of art, where it's like, why can't I just literally, you know, pack up my car, my van, whatever vehicle I got, I get to go put on a show, uh, and then you give me like a really good sandwich, and then I can go do another show, and then you like, you know, you can fix my sink, uh, you know, or you can fix my roof, and I'm gonna go, you know, I'm gonna go entertain, you know, like we got a birthday party coming up, right? Or whatever skill I have, right? Like a bar like a bartering system. Yeah. Yeah. We could have had it. We could have we could have it. Could have had it.

Joel 26:25

It could have been trading repairs for for improv.

Abel 26:28

I mean, pretty much, yo, man, I need an oil change. Ready for some zip zap zap? Yeah.

Producing Shows and the Stress of Losing Money

Joel 26:34

Uh it makes me think of producing shows and how much mental energy that takes up about because I have to pay the venue. So I'm always on my mind is like, oh, am I gonna lose money on this show? Because it's one thing to not make money from show, but if I'm also losing money and needing to pay my bills, that's tough too. Oh, yeah.

Abel 26:57

And so now you've incorporated a stress aspect to something that you love. Yes. It it's brutal. Brutal. And where does that stress come? I mean, we yeah. I don't want I don't want to deal with this.

The Financial Realities of Independent Teaching

Joel 27:12

Yeah, and us both um actually as independent teachers, too, in the community where we like run our own classes and our own education stuff, makes me think of that too. It's like um just just thinking about pricing and and especially with with um musical, because we need to pay two teachers, like the price jump there so that it makes it worthwhile for two teachers to take their time out is is tough. It's really hard. It's tough to grapple with like, well, can everyone afford this? And like something that helps is um Justin and I have like implemented like payment plans, great, like community discounts that support the other theaters and programs. So like if someone has taken dad's garage program levels one through four, they get a discount. Someone who went through Whole World's program, they get a small discount. Um Madeline's classes get a discount. So like just to kind of give some I feel like it's so cliche you get to a new theater or a new school, and they're like, you gotta just start over. You gotta just pay and and do your thing. Yeah so this is a way that's like, all right, well, we could knock off a little bit of the price for you at least if you've been educated elsewhere.

Abel 28:26

That's a great yeah. I mean, and I think there's an under I think we have you there's just so much to it. There's so many levels to it. I think we can trust like I'm very blessed that I've uh been able to work with a lot of different people, and and now there's there's sort of this core of folks that have continued to work that I've gotten to work with in in in a class uh setting or a gym setting. And um I think we have to trust that they're gonna know what they want. You know, it kind of goes back to what we were talking about, like everybody's gonna experience things the way they're gonna experience them. And it's kind of like we're by putting a price tag on our time, we're not insulting anybody. Right. We're just you you just knowing your worth. Yeah. And trusting that people are gonna be like, cool, can't do it this time. Yeah, but next time, or whatever. Yep.

Knowing Your Worth and Pricing Your Time

Joel 29:24

So yeah, and I think it's worth it to teach something I believe in and a curriculum I believe in, and like gotta do it. Yeah. Um, I want to circle back. You you have a theater degree. Uh you did theater in high school. Do the do do the things that you learned through your theater degree feel like that still comes out in your improv? Ooh. Uh the short answer is yes.

How a Theater Degree Still Shows Up in Improv

Abel 29:46

Yeah. It's got I I don't know that it can't, I don't know that it can be no. But I think the short answer is yes.

Joel 29:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I love because when I hear other improv podcasts, I I'm always like so jealous when I hear improviser got started when they were kids in some theater program, in some improv program. And I'm like, man, I didn't even know I could have been doing this since I was a kid, you

Comedy Sports LA and the College Team Pipeline

Joel 30:13

know?

Abel 30:13

You know, that it's funny you should so uh I found my improv home at comedy sports. Uh and comedy sports is all over the world still, apparently. Um, at least I hope they are. But I think they're still going, yeah. Um I got my start at comedy sports, and comedy sports in LA had uh uh comedy sports in LA had a what was called the college team. It was a bunch of college-age kids straight out of high school because they had a high school league, and so they would go to high schools in the LA area, you know, once a week or whatever, workshop games, and then like once every whatever, we'd have a show. And everybody like schools would come out. So then after they were high school, they had so many kids that were went through this high school program that were like, Well, what do we do now? And then the college team was born. And so you had 18 to 22 year olds, a bunch of 18 to 22-year-olds improvising and performing every week, every Sunday for like two, three hours, working stuff out, and then every Thursday night, they'd have a show. These kids, these like 18, 19-year-old kids, right? So then cut to you know, a few years later, I come in the mix, and I'm you know, when I joined comedy sports, I think I was about 27, and all these kids, kind of like how you're looking at it, have been doing this for since they were 18. And at the time they're only like a few years into it, but but at the age, sure, they had basically what you're talking about. They had like a five, tenure head start, so to speak, you know, and a lot of these cats are now in their early 30s but have been doing it for pretty much 20 years. Yeah. Um, you know, shout out to you know, a lot of a lot of you listening probably see game change, like Kimmy Boompornia, uh Jake Wasaki, Kurt Maloney. Shout out to all those cats. Like we, those are old comedy sports pals. Um Jessica Williams is killing it on shrinking, old comedy sports pals, man.

Joel 32:20

And you're saying there's pal, there are pals that you played with on comedy sports?

Abel 32:23

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were all at comedy sports when I got there.

Joel 32:26

They were already, they were already doing it. Yeah, I remember we spoke a while back and you had said you'd personally known and played with a lot of these.

Abel 32:32

All of those names, those, yeah, those are yeah, yeah. They they were so much fun to play with. Um shout out to all my comedy sports family, by the way. Um just so much talent in that theater, just so much fun. Uh, my improv mentor, Lauren Pritchard. She's like, you know, if you're out in LA ever and you can take an improv workshop with her, go take an improv workshop with her. Lauren Pritchard. Yeah. Lauren, she just learned, I learned so much. I got to work with her at Universal, and then through that found out about comedy sports, and then joined Comedy Sports. And then she was essentially the Sunday team director. So every Sunday, it was like college team, Sunday team, main company, and then Sunday team, we would, you know, every Sunday, five, you know, four to six or whatever it was, work, work, work, work, work, and then seven o'clock was a show. So some of us would perform, some of us wouldn't. Have a rotation. You'd probably do one or two shows a month at that point, probably two, closer to two shows a month. Because the cast in comedy sports is very much like theater sports. Cast is big. Cast is like eight to ten people, you know. So you had like 30 people, 20 to 30 people in Sunday teams. So you like every other week you would perform. And that's short form. Yeah, I was short form. But we would have we would have like long form-ish games. Sure. Yeah. Um, and then we would all we were always branching out, we were always doing like genre stuff at comedy sports. There was like improvised downtown Abbey, there was improvised high school dramas called The High. Um, shout out to Matt Young and Andy Crocker. Matt Young, of course, founded Dad's Garage. Um, so that was a cool world, like full circle. Um cool. Uh, but they created that show, which was high school drama. Alex Fasciani created this show called Neon Improv Cigarette and asked me to co-direct it, which was like neonore, like Miami Vice kind of thing, really heavily music-based, a lot of scoring. Um Cast from Comedy Sports also started The Resistance, which was improvised action, whole improvised action movie. And they brought out stunt pads, they had like the full thing. It was it was dope. I got to um I got to do the scoring on the later end of that run. Um, but the show was incredible, so much fun. Uh had a residency at iOS before Io West's, you know, stopped. Yeah. Um, but um, I don't remember what we were talking about, but the the oh yeah, but yeah, all these young cats, all these young cats there, it was just so much fun to play with, and they were still learning and you're still learning, you're always learning.

You're Always Learning: Chris Tallman's Notebook

Joel 35:18

Regardless of where you are in your journey.

Abel 35:20

No matter what. I would love to take a class. You know, I hear, you know, I hear, you know, you hear gossip or you hear rumors, you hear things, and you wonder, like you don't see you see a lot of people that have been doing it for so long and you're wondering where they're at. And it's like, are they teaching? Are they doing stuff? You're always learning. You're always learning. Always, always, always. Chris Tallman.

Joel 35:42

Never stops.

Abel 35:42

Never stops. Chris Tallman was also at Comedy Sports, and he would always bring a notebook. Like he was, I got to work with him doing um The High and other shows at at Comedy Sports. And he and Lauren, Lauren would always point him out like Chris always brings a notebook. Do you know how long that dude's been doing it, you know, at the time? I think he's he's probably, I don't know, he's a little bit older than me. I mean, it doesn't matter how old he's older than me. He's been in the game a lot longer than me. But even after every show, he would always bring a notebook, no matter what. And then at that time he was doing it for probably closer to 20 years. So it's it's now coming up on 40 years, and I bet you that dude, if he's doing shows, he's still bringing notebooks. I love that.

Joel 36:25

I love that. I know a few folks who bring notebooks to a little notepads to a show. I bring notebook, yeah. Bring notepads of a big notebook fan. Huge fan. I think it's part of um it's an essential part of uh being a good act. You you everyone wants to be better. Everybody does, has the urge they want to be better, funnier. So I think it's so important to also be a student of the craft, too. When I go watch a show and I'm taking notes and I'm looking in the way I'm analyzing a show, why did oh oh the audience like that? Let me write this down. Why did they like that? What stood out there? Okay, though, oh, that move didn't work. Nobody reacted. What fell flat there? Would it work on a different night? Ooh, would it work on a different night?

What Does "Getting Better" Really Mean?

Abel 37:10

Would it work on a different week? Would it work in a different time of life of that performer? Would it work in a different time of life of the 50 people, the three people that were in the audience? Yeah, is that a Friday night joke versus a Sunday night joke? And I think you get in a slip, you get on a slippery slope because I think there is an art form. You know, if you've ever seen the documentary Comedian with Jerry Seinfeld and um I forget the name.

Joel 37:36

The name of the documentary is Comedian?

Abel 37:37

Yeah. Um they follow Jerry as he basically rewrites his entire material. Just after being off this is, I mean, this is like 20, 25 years old now, but he had all this material and he decided he's not gonna do these old jokes anymore. He's doing all new jokes, and it follows him on that journey of developing new material. And there's this other comedian, I can't remember his name. It's a really unique sounding name. It's like Corky or something like that. And he's always talking about, he's like, he's he's at a he's at the Montreal just for laughs at one point, and he gets like a matinee slot, and he comes out after the set pissed. He's like, Who does who goes to comedy on Sunday afternoon? And later in the documentary, um, you know, uh Jerry's talking to Bill Cosby, um, obviously before everything. Um, and Bill's talking about what do you mean Sunday? Like it was a Sunday, ironically, it was a Sunday afternoon, and it was like he had the crowd rolling, and he's like, it doesn't matter what time. So I know it's contradictory to what I was saying earlier. Is this a Sunday night joke versus or or it would it work at a different time on a different day? But I think there is a testament to like what you were saying. There's a testament to just feeling comfortable no matter what. And I think when people look at how do I become better or funnier, I think it's actually the more accurate description is how do I become what's gonna make me more comfortable? Yeah, I really think that's it. I don't think I don't think there's such a thing as better. Because I think, you know, as good, as quote unquote good I think I am, I could probably do a show wherever, and if there's a hundred people watching, there's there's gonna be like a few people that are like eh, eh, right, to to top. Can't make every show happy, yeah, and whatever. Um people might, you know, I might get that label. Oh, he's one of the best information, blah blah blah blah blah blah. But a few people are gonna disagree. But I feel very comfortable, you know what I'm saying? So it's like if you have a format, if you have whatever, this is what we're doing. Yeah, what do you what do I have to hit? Tell me what I have to tell me what's a no-fly zone, and tell me what's good to go, and let's go.

Joel 39:57

Do you think to to reach that comfort level, that confidence level? It always comes up. Is just is it just reps?

Abel 40:03

That's a really good question.

Joel 40:04

Reps in time.

Abel 40:06

I really think it is. Yeah. Cause in no way, like, so let's just say two thousand summer of 2004 was when I first started just really I've been consistently doing improv since 2004. Coming up 22 years, which is absolutely beautifully boggling. Like that's absolutely half my life. It's coming up on half of my life. I've been consistently doing improv. In no and at no point in my journey, at no point was I ever, you know what? I'm really good at this because of dot dot dot dot. I'm really good at this because I was at the Ella Connection and then UCB and then Growlings and then I did shows and then I did this and that. I never there's no yeah, you're never looking at it that way. Ever. As much as you like to think, like, okay, if I make this move, if I do this thing, it's gonna set me up for success here, right? The five-year plan. It'll be this class, it's gonna move the needle, right? It's gonna be this next class I take. It's gonna be a game changer. I hear, dude, like there's so many, like I hear so many, you know, acting coaches and acting schools and improv schools, and like, and they say shit like, you know, uh, nail yourself tapes if you do this, and you know, have a better scene if you do this. Like, what the fuck does better mean, dude? What does better mean? What does better even mean? Yeah, uh it's all subjective. And you know, we brought up always learning, like within the last three years, four years even, I could finally put a very specific sort of uh point of view approach, whatever you want to call it, in that and and I I learned that success is subjective. Success is one million percent subjective.

Success Is Subjective

Joel 42:10

Oh, yeah, 100%.

Abel 42:11

You might people might argue that people might be like, well, you know, so-and-so's booked X, Y, and Z, so-and-so's on this TV show, so-and-so's on doing that thing, so and so's, you know, you talked about comparisons earlier and all that. And so, okay, great.

Joel 42:26

Yeah. Um, Ethan, um, something that Ethan Hawke said stood out to me here about uh similar to this, about success, success as an actor. And people have such this high bar, a famous actor on the red carpet winning awards goal. But he's like, Would you be happy, you know, being wrinkly and old, never making it, and you're teaching improv at a local theater? If you wouldn't, if you don't find that successful, and he and he was just blank, he's like, get the fuck out. Yep. You gotta love this thing regardless of where you're at. You gotta love it. You gotta love it. And it was just like such a powerful um statement he was making, uh, just to to let go of the expectations of what success traditionally looks like. Because I I think about it and I wrestle with that too, what success looks like for me. And I ground myself in in when I'm reminded that in this adult life with all these stressors, financial, political, familial, uh um, that uh when I get a break to play make-believe with friends on a stage and an audience, it all goes away for thirty minutes, for an hour, for whatever it is. And just that is a beautiful enough gift to to keep doing it.

Abel 43:53

I agree a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I think um yeah, it's it's uh I agree with Mr. Ethan Hawk. And I remember I was teaching at the American Academy of Dramatic Art in LA. Rest in peace. That campus is now closed, sadly. But I remember I would tell students, like, you have to reconcile right now that the odds are not forever in your favor. I didn't say that, but um but the odds of you holding down one or two jobs while you continue to audition and book, that is the odds are that is how that is your life. That is the that is the extent. That's the life. That's the life. For better or worse. So you better love it. You better love it. I I hope that you love it. Um I remember Tara Oaks and I had a discussion about like the how problematic saying, Well, you gotta love this thing, you gotta just love it. Um because it's in terms of the art, like loving the art. Yeah, like basically, I think we just we noted how like kind of uncomfortable saying to somebody, you got you better love it, you better love it, is um, which I agree with to it to an extent, because there's truth in like, yeah, you really do have to love it, but like I think we didn't get to really deep dive in it, her and I, but it felt like where it was going, and she could totally call me out if I'm totally wrong. Um it felt like where it was going was like a slippery slope of like now you're starting to quantify what that looks like because I felt I've still fallen that trap of I'm currently in that trap of like super, super existential cry of like, am I still an actor? I haven't, you know, like uh all this shit was going on in my life, and I had no desire to do these auditions. I couldn't, I couldn't. I had a sick kid, and I wasn't gonna be like, hey kid, uh you know, the only thing you want for me to sit next to you while you like fall asleep or or you know, like you

Balancing Family, Identity, and an Acting Career

Abel 46:00

know, watch your show, like hold on while I go do a self-tape. You know? Yeah, and like wow. Getting emotional here. Yeah. Um that was very unexpected. Um that's real though. That's that's such a real thought. But coming out here, and even before my wife and I had kids, you know, you have it's it's kind of died off a little bit, which is very nice. But that idea of like, what are you doing for your career? You gotta be doing something every day for your career if you wanna make it, and this, that, and and like, okay, maybe there's a semblage of truth to that, but like also fuck you. Yeah, yeah. Like, who who are you? Who who who's determining this? You know, and going back to the success being subjective thing, you know, not to get all morbid and shit, but like, I die tomorrow. Am I successful? Am I, you know, did I did I did I do it the best that I could do it? And overall, I can say yeah.

Joel 47:12

Yeah.

Abel 47:12

As much as there's other shit that I would like to do, as much as as as much as I want other things, blah blah blah blah blah, I'm a I'm a good husband, I'm a good father, I'm a great improv, you know, I'm a good improviser, I have fun, you know what I mean? There's things that I love to do that I got to experience in my life, and I'm continuing to do as much as possible, right? And what that doesn't that make me a success? I don't know. Maybe, but also who's asking and who cares? Like, yeah, who's asking who cares? Like I have people that I love and I have people that are around that love me and and and and it's great, and that's it. That's really it. That's beautiful. Yeah I don't know, I don't know. I and it's that weird thing, it's con almost contradictory, but they're you know, it's dialectical. Uh would I love to be on SNL? 100 fucking yes. Are you kidding me? The idea of like staying up till four in the morning, honing a sketch, pitching it, blah, blah, blah, meeting whoever and working with whoever, blah, blah, blah. That's that's something that I've since I was like 11 years old, thought like that would be incredible. 10 years old doing a Hans and Franz sketch in fifth grade with my buddy David Steger and calling up our buddy Tony Sosano up and like, you know what I mean? Doing a you know, a version of that, thinking like, yeah, one day, one day, people signing my yearbooks and shit. Can't wait to see you on SNL and all that shit, right? Not happen, I'm 40, you know, about to turn 45. Yeah, and it's have I have I quote unquote come close? Well, if by come close, do you mean that I've like worked with people that are on SNL or know a person that knows a person on SNL or know someone that wrote on SNL? Yes. In that regard, yes, I've come close. But have I auditioned? No. Have I no? So anyway, I'm going off the rails. Yes, it's uh it's one of those things that you just constantly deal with of of that of that identity and artistic and uh doing

The Common Struggle of Being an Artist in a Capitalist World

Abel 49:16

what you love.

Joel 49:16

Yeah, and I'm just seeing more and more um speaking to my friends and colleagues. It's such a common struggle, it's such a common battle that I think artists are are dealing with now more than ever, too. Because I think it's becoming harder and harder to want to commit to an art, to want to do something while trying to survive out out here.

Performing at Universal Studios Hollywood

Abel 49:39

Yeah. That's always been the case. I was very lucky in LA that my side gig, quote unquote, was performing. I got to do improv at Universal Studios Hollywood. That was my bread and butter. That was a whole that's a whole nother podcast of the BS that at Universal Oh God, the that the the management at the time was absolute garbage. And it was oh man, the the sort of yeah, I don't want to get into that. But I ended up quitting. I was like, I was I was a part of the same department for probably like 12 years. 10 years rolled around, I didn't get any kind of recognition. Not that I wanted like, you know, but 10 years customarily, you got like, hey, congratulations on 10 years being here, all this shit, right? Nothing. I I quit. I was like, I'm putting in my notice. No one, no one was like, what? No, nobody cared other than my castmates, right? Nobody cared. Lauren, I worked with Lauren Pritt. Lauren was so proud of me. She's like, good for I'm so glad that you're doing that. Lauren sounds like a good idea. She's absolutely the best. She's still doing it. God bless her. She is still doing that. That element, the New York improv element, uh, is coming up on 20, 20 years. Uh, we originated that element, uh, and uh she's still doing it. And it's I would in a heartbeat. Are you kidding me? If I still could do that gig, I would. Wow. Because it's like it's performing, it's not the best money, but you're performing and you're having a good time. It relates to what you love and are passionate about. You still get to do it again. It goes back to the success thing. Like 15 years ago, yeah. I would, I would, I would have said, I would have told you like I wouldn't be caught dead doing a theme park if I'm at four, if I'm in my forties. But now I'm like, shit. Making it the after the reality checks come in and well, the reality checks, but also understanding that success is subjective. You still get to, you're still delighting people, you're still having a positive effect on people. People, people spend how many thousands of dollars. Some people, that's the only time they'll ever be in California and they get to set foot in that theme park. Yeah, and you get to make them smile, you get to make them laugh, right? When I was a tour guide, same kind of shit. It's the only time they're ever gonna be on an actual movie studio set. They're not actors, they're not gonna be on TV, they don't have any goal or aspiration to do that. And you're making them laugh and you're showing them where, you know, you're showing them where the sting was filmed, you're showing them where, you know, this movie and this commercial was filmed, the back to the future was filmed, right? You're showing them all these cool things, and they're just like, oh, you get to do that. You telling me that's not successful? That's yeah, what is something? Beautiful, beautiful experience. I wish, I wish I had more of that mentality then. I think deep down, I think in a few layers down, I think I did because I really loved to do, I really enjoyed myself working at that theme park. I met my wife at the theme park and changed working for that company changed my life. Wow. 100%.

Joel 52:54

You met your wife there. I met my wife there. Yeah, yeah. Was she in the audience? Was she a spectator?

Abel 53:00

No, no, no. So she did um, she did the Terminator 2 stunt show. Um, she was a Kimberly. It was like they had a host, and you were like, I don't know if anybody's out there ever been to the Terminator 2 stunt show as it doesn't exist anymore. But you would go in and you were like visiting Cyberdyne Systems. Come and take a tour, Cyberdyne Systems, you know, high tech, blah, blah, blah. And she was your host. She was like, hi, I'm Kimberly. I actually never got to see her do it. I actually never got it. I wish I did, but I never got to see her do it. Um, but she would be the host, and then she'd get like, she'd get uh she'd get killed by the T1000. So she'd get like straight, you'd like she'd held up by the neck and like thrown down into a mat.

Joel 53:42

Like, oh my gosh.

Abel 53:43

Um you have a super stutch shelter, you know, and then so like uh uh John and Sarah Connor come through and like you've got to get out of here, and all this shit. Oh, like on a screen?

Joel 53:56

Yeah, but all no, also like this sounds vaguely familiar. They had it in Orlando. I may have been there in Orlando when I was like six years old.

Abel 54:06

Yeah, so anyway, um she was doing that, and then Universal had uh sports leagues, they had volleyball, basketball, and softball. And so I played pretty much all of them sometimes because it was just fun to get exercise, but softball was my jam. I was like, let's do this, and that's how we met. We we played softball, we were both in the softball league, and we knew mutual people that were like I was playing either I was playing softball with or she was doing the terminated the stunt show with, and then so we met, and then um I was always like, yay, what's up? Um but she but it was like the timing wasn't right forever, and then like six years after we initially met, uh we reconnected and and started dating. Wow, so anyway, I mean what that gig beautiful. I mean, that gig also like for the tour guides, they did showcases for for for industry for agents, and uh I had an agent. Um, but when I did this one showcase at the end of 2010, um another agent approached me and was like, we want to sign you commercially, we want to sign you commercially. And I was like, um, okay. And I did, and like two months later, I booked my first national, or three months later, I booked my first national commercial. Sweet. And that was like from there, just a bunch, just like auditioning so much and and and booking a lot, pretty much. Uh, for you know, not to even quantify it or anything, but it was like it was great, and that it's because of that company's because of working for there, working, working for the computer. You never know when it's gonna happen. And that's the thing. Like, I that another thing that you know, we talked about no one do does this thing for this specific goal. I didn't apply and go through the audition process of being a tour guide because I'm gonna get an agent and meet my wife. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, I wanted to be a tour guide. You it was gonna be fun and it was gonna be uh a way to perform, and yeah, I get to be, and they did, they did uh, you know, not to be they did, they did, they did prop up the fact that you would be in front of industry and you would have it, you'd have that chance. So for an actor, this was a good gig because it was part-time and all that. So they did play into that aspect. So yeah, it did scratch that itch of that possibility of like, ooh, I might, I might make it. And for a young scrappy actor on the scene, I'm gonna make it one day.

Joel 56:37

Yeah. The world's gonna see. I'm gonna get the best tour and be recognized.

Abel 56:42

I had a terrible, I was probably so obnoxious, but I had a bit towards the end of the tour, I would say. Uh what would I say? I would say, um Well, folks, we've just about come to the end of the Universal Studios uh studio tour. And when you get home and talk about your experience, you can say that you had the uh the the best tour from the five best tour guides, able, able, able, able, and able, the top five best tour guides. That's I literally would say that. I would I would that was so fucking egomaniacal. Uh that was your tagline every time. Not every time. Sometimes I'd be like, yeah, you should switch it up. Um you got your tour from the five best tour guides at uh at Universal, and then I would just put my name out on the top five. Totally biting off of the uh of the Chappelle show Dylan bit. Like the five best MCs. Dylon, dylon, dylon, dylon, dylon. Um uh but yeah, it was it was it was fun, man. It was such a fun time looking back on it. It was like, you know, I got a buddy that still does the tours, and he's got it so he's got it so handled that he'll like he'll shoot me texts while he's like, yeah, just doing a tour right now. And I I didn't do tours that long to where I was like texting for you able to juggle to doing the tour and I was doing the you know, I was so focused on like get the right clip, show the DVD, the the right clip and cue up the DVD player and do a bit and this and that. This is ridiculous.

Joel 58:05

Nice. Um you mentioned Lauren Pritchett before, and what was she did she was she in a teaching role or was it a management role or like what was that? Lauren Pritchard. Uh Lauren Pritchard, yeah.

Favorite Teachers and the Value of Taking More Classes

Abel 58:20

Pritchard, yeah. Uh Lauren in at Universal, she was uh we were we were performers together. She was never in a management role. Um who were who were some of your favorite teachers? I guess uh Oh gosh. See, okay. This is where I think if you have to quantify uh or you know, going to a very you know standard you know basic description of like I could have done better. Uh I wish I took more classes with different people. I wish I took more classes. Yeah. Because I did the whole UCB track and I did the whole groundlings track, and I think that concentration of improv, once I landed at comedy sports, I just felt at home there. I just felt like everybody's here to improvise and have a great fucking time. Yeah. At Groundlings at UCB, it was not necessarily about that. And I can't speak for everybody that was doing those classes then. This is 20 years ago. Um, but groundlings was very much about you got you had a big contingent of folks like I'm gonna take a couple levels of groundlings so it's on my resume. Because, you know, as an actor, having that improv training on your resume, especially in commercials, like 90% of the commercials I went out was like improv training a plus improv background to must, improv background a must, improv a must be a must. Oh wow must, right? Um, and this is like 2010. But after at 2010, I hadn't done anything else but comedy sports and like a long form team. And I think in 09, I started, I joined a long form team. And so I was just doing shows and working. Or I should say when I say working, I mean every week I was going to practice to improv practice. In 2010, that stopped at comedy sports, but I was pretty much doing two shows a week, maybe even three, for like four years. Wow. Uh between comedy sports shows and my long form team, I was just doing shows and doing shows and doing shows. Yeah. I wish I would have said four a week. Three or yeah, three to four. Like three. Wow. Probably like three. Because every week we had our long form shows, like on a Thursday night or whatever. And if I was available, I would do a Friday night show and a Saturday night show. And then most of the time on one of those Friday night shows, I would do the early and the late show. So three to four. Yeah, three to four a week. Wow. And then every month, uh, for main, once I got on Comedy Sports Main Company, Jesus, uh, boom, um, hitting this mic like a um every month we'd meet. Every month we'd workshop. Every month we'd get together for two or three hours, and it was a requirement of main company. You gotta come to you gotta come to practices, you gotta come to workshops. Uh-huh. I see. And here's the thing, it was once a month, and you took they didn't have any, I think, in July, because it was in the middle of summer, everybody leaves town and whatever. And it was done in December. Uh, maybe even November. But let's just call it 10. 10 10 a year, 10 workshops a year. And guess what, Joel? You didn't even have to go to every single workshop. You could miss half. Wow. Half, Eddie. Half.

Joel 1:01:54

And um I that's some kind of a reference to something that is. Yeah. And if you know what, I'll uh I don't know. Maybe I'll for the listeners. Uh Abel did a huge jet lean back and did a huge gesture. I went half.

Abel 1:02:07

Half, Eddie. Um, you probably guess what it is, but if you don't know, maybe I'll tell you. Maybe I won't. Um no, but but five. So five, five practices a year was all that was required of you as a main company member. And you had to do a show, like you had to do a show every every couple months. So it was like this like, all right, we'll just keep kind of in touch. And that was great. You see all the, you know, some workshops were lighter attended than others, but that was the requirement. And it was great because, you know, at a certain time, everybody's life changes. So in a few, you know, five years in, people were like, hey, you know, I'm I'm still main company, but I'm not really doing as much. And and they'd show up once in a while or or whatever, and it was great. It was a great, it was a great buy-in for folks to make sure that their chops were up. But but that being said, I was doing a lot of improv but not taking classes anywhere else. After after that, after doing UCB and um and groundlings, once I found comedy sports, I kind of just stopped taking classes. Okay. Yeah. I see. I did workshops randomly, but uh uh Rich Talarico, who's doing a workshop this Saturday, um, he was great. I've I've stolen a lot from him. Uh Craig Kakowski, I've stolen some from him. Exercises, exercises and sort of like approaches. Um Lauren was fantastic. Uh she did a whole series on genre where we would we'd we'd spend like a week, but I mean a week, but we'd spend like the whole three-hour workshop on Hitchcock. We'd spend the whole three-hour workshop on Westerns. We spend, you know, whatever whatever genre there was that we might get in a show, we would work it. We would work it. And then we would uh the fun part were and then we'd do sci-fi, and then it was like because sci-fi and horror have all these sub-genres, we'd get into that. So, like, okay, is it sci-fi like futuristic? Is it sci-fi fantasy like Star Wars? Is it is it sci-fi, you know, I said futuristic like fifth element, let's say, is it sci-fi post-apocalyptic? You know, you had all these like and then horror. Is it horror supernatural? Is it horror slasher? Oh, fun. Is it horror, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, subgenre. Is it horror thriller? Right? So you get all these subgenres and then you you'd see where they get to play and you could see how they overlap.

Genre Workshops: From Westerns to Sci-Fi Sub-Genres

Joel 1:04:36

And and then the workshop, you'd learn specific genres for that workshop.

Abel 1:04:41

You just go over, we'd run, we'd run like because it was usually in a game called Mega Replay. Okay. Where it was like, all right, you have 45 seconds to a minute to do just a neutral scene or a scene. Just do a scene, and now we're gonna see the scene in the style of and we get it from the audience. Scene three ways kind of thing. Yeah, that's the name of it here. Yeah, yeah. Scene three ways, but mega, yeah, exactly. Um, and mega replay was so much fun to do because we do with the comedy sports shows, it was teams of three on each side. Uh, Sunday team was teams of four. So uh main company was teams of three. Don't ask me why. Um, and so usually the mega replay was an all-play. And so we would have like, all right, the red team will do the initial scene, and then the red team will do the second scene, and then the blue team will do the, you know, so Western for red and sci-fi for blue, horror for red, and then the all, you know, so it all the different, all the different elements and the variables will come to that. But yeah, we would work on that. We would work on genre. Uh Lauren was fantastic with characters. Lauren gave me one of the best pieces of advice improv wise I ever got, which was, you know, she had the sandwich mentality. So everybody out there that's like looking to interest in teaching and and all this, when you give feedback, you sandwich it with a compliment. Right? You sandwich your criticism or your critique with a compliment with compliments. So you're such a strong. She, she, I remember this, it was not verbatim, obviously, but you're such a strong, you have such strong characters, and there's such strong points of view. You gotta be affected. You're not changing. You're coming into the scene as whatever character, and you're staying in that emotion. You're staying in that point of view. You gotta be affected because your characters are so strong and they're so much fun to watch. This will up that game.

Lauren's Best Note: You Gotta Be Affected

unknown 1:06:26

Yeah.

Joel 1:06:26

And I remember what a beautiful uh sandwich method example. Yeah. Cause because uh some people, I think the delivery of it too can feel unnatural for the like a classic managerial feedback advice of the of the giving the sandwich type feedback.

Abel 1:06:43

It's easy to fall into that critique eye too, because you're thinking, okay, I'm a I'm a teacher, I'm an instructor, I'm a director, and I've got to I've got to be looking for the wrong things. They don't, yeah. They're they are, believe me, the wrong, the quote unquote wrong things will be very obvious.

Joel 1:07:00

Yes, I I agree with you. So you can be positive. I I I love I love that because something I've I lean in towards now teaching is if if I'm doing if I'm doing a solid job teaching and they're getting the concepts of of platform or strong emotion or this and that, and we have a scene that's a little on the weaker side, and afterwards I'm like, How'd that feel? And they already say, I could have leaned in more on that that emotion, or like, yeah, I didn't know where we were, so it made it hard to figure. They they sometimes they already know the notes that I want to give, and they know I'm like, Cool, yeah, you already know. That's great. That's it. You get it next time. That was that was great, great job. And we just move, we just move on. Because you're right, sometimes we just feel it already. You already know, and they just need positive reinforcement most of the time for the for the things they're doing well. Absolutely, it's

It's Art, Not Academia

Joel 1:07:52

art.

Abel 1:07:52

Yeah, it's fucking art. There is no reason to make it academic.

Joel 1:07:58

It's fucking art. I feel like that's a hot take. I feel like there's two styles, there's two styles of teaching. Because I feel like there, um I feel like there's a super playful, freeing uh style of teaching of improv, it's like, hey, be free, do your thing, be yourself, which I love is beautiful. And then there's academic style of teaching that's like, hey, hit the we gotta hit the platform, strong character, strong emotion, like up the you know what I mean? There's but there's a way to marry those, both are true and both are beautiful. You have to marry the two. You have to marry

Marrying Playfulness and Structure in Teaching

Joel 1:08:34

the two.

Abel 1:08:34

I think you absolutely have to marry the two. I I can't sit here in front, like I don't incorporate, you know, sort of those were for lack of a better term, rules. Yeah, as much as people might be listening that have heard me say, you've heard me say, fuck the rules. Yeah. And the only rule in my only rule we need to be following every single time we're on stage is making each other safe. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Are you keeping are you keeping me emotionally and physically safe? Great. Everything else is up for grabs. Yeah. Because I think you you will have those tools. You you will, like you just said, you know, as your example of giving notes, you will have those moments of okay, we didn't know where we were, or we didn't know who we were, and this and that and this. But guess what? There are gonna be scenes where I don't know where the two, let's say I'm watching a scene, I don't know where the two people were, but holy shit, I was invested and I was just into the scene. I was totally, totally just into it, wanting to know what was gonna happen next. Did that mean it was a shitty scene because we didn't know where they were? Right. Yeah, right. I I think I I agree with you in that there is there is benefit um in being in having a term, and and I think I think schools, instructors, etc. can really lean into acknowledging, hey, this is just our way of doing it. This is just what we do here. So when you go take classes at and that's a testament to the level one teachers at UCB and at Groundlings 20 years ago, they were very adamant about that. You know, um Yeah, I love that. I feel like that's an important thing needing to share. I think UCB had a little, this is back in the day, so you know, don't, don't, don't at me. Um back in the day, UCB had a little less of like sort of giving credit where credit is due in terms of go teach elsewhere. That's why Lauren was such an amazing teacher, is because she was like, go take classes elsewhere. Yeah, don't just work here, don't just take classes here. Go do go take IO classes. It's important. Don't take UCB classes. It's important. If you haven't, go get exposed to different approaches, different styles, all that stuff. Teachers, yep, different philosophy. And so UCB, I remember the classes there were kind of like, um, we do it here, and this is kind of the better way to do it. This is kind of the better way to do it. Kind of vibe. They had that kind of like this is the better way to do it. Interesting thing. Yeah, there's different ways, but this is the better way, kind of thing. I felt that. And this just might be my interpretation. So, and again, I know people that currently teach at UCB that are like, or I don't know what they do anymore. Anyway, they have and they used to, or whatever, and they were like, they that might be totally different vibe now. It probably is. I hope it is.

Encouraging Individuality: Tools, Not Rules

Abel 1:11:30

It's 20 years ago, right? Yeah. Um, the improv scene was also very different 20 years ago, at least in LA. Um, and groundlings was very much like, yes, this is our way here, not and not knocking any other way. Like, this is just our way we do it. That's it. You want to do it this way, go there, you want to do it this way, go there. But this is the way we approach it here. And I think we need to lean into that more. I think, and and then, you know, teachers like us that do it independently that don't necessarily have like a school or a whole mission statement, we can be better, and we can be better served as, or we can be of better service to encourage folks' individuality, yeah, in that of like, hey, and acknowledge like this is just my opinion. When I teach, when I teach or run the gym or whatever, it's just like, hey, this is just my I make that almost every note. Hey, this is just my opinion, so take it or leave it. I'm wondering about dot dot dot dot and I think I think people can do more of that, um, even in an academic sense. Like presenting this academia as like, look, this is just academics. This is just like I wrote about this, I think, yeah, I wrote about this recently, and like these are just tools that serve you. You're not like serving the tools, you're not gonna wind up in the annals of history when it regards the platform, the hall of fame platform, Joel Camar. Like, no one before has established platform like Joel Camar.

Joel 1:13:07

Nobody's there does that that that doesn't exist. Yeah, something I tell students too. I'm just like, um, yeah, the there there are these. I I I don't use the word rules anymore either. I use like tools, tool suggestions. Um, because I've seen scenes, and and sometimes when people are having trouble wake the platform and this and that, and I'll say I've seen scenes that have a clear platform, strong emotions, a tilt, and sometimes that scene falls flat too. It can have everything, it can have everything that we're talking about and still fall flat. Yeah, for for one reason or another. These are just tools you can pull out when you need them. That's it. I've seen scenes where we say talking heads, 11s, two people just standing there. We don't know who they are, where they are, what they're doing. And I've seen those sometimes be hysterical. Hysterical. Hysterical. Yeah. You you just so they're just, yeah. So when I I'm also like, fuck the rules, right? Follow the fun, follow your instincts, and just support the person on stage with you. And you're gonna, it's gonna, yeah, the the beauty's gonna come out.

Michael Jordan and the Power of Being in the Moment

Abel 1:14:17

Yep. It's what we talked about earlier of when you said, you know, this is gonna fall flat. Well, and that's why I asked, was it was will it would it have fallen flat the next day? Would it have fallen flat the week before? And that is really going tapping into exactly what you said, just connecting with your with your scene partner, just being right there in the moment. There's uh a documentary called The Last Dance, it's all about the the Bulls, the Chicago Bulls. It's like a heard of it, yeah. It's good, it's so good, especially if you're a basketball fan. Even if you're a sports fan by any sense, watch that documentary. It's so good. In the spoiler alert, um, the Bulls win. Um but uh Michael Jordan retires twice. Uh he plays baseball in between what his first retirement and his second retirement, and then he comes back and just dominates. Anyway, um a quote that I've attributed that I've referenced in in my newsletter or whatever and other places is um his biography, Michael Jordan's biographer is like one of the last episodes. Michael Jordan's biographer says something to the effect of you know, Michael wasn't necessarily the best basketball player, he wasn't the best shooter, you know, he was I'm not saying he wasn't good, but he wasn't like the quote unquote the best. And again, this quote is not verbatim, but what Michael did better than anybody else was be completely in the moment and just understand what the moment needed. And he did that better than anybody else. And I heard that quote and it just hit me like a ton of like I was like, that's it. I'm writing that one down. I was like, that's it right there. That's it right there. If you're you that's every time, every time we're on stage, every time we're doing a scene, that's because that's all that matters. Yeah, that's all that matters. That moment, that's all you have. Eckhart Tollies Power of Now, uh uh Zen Mind, Beginner Mind, um is another book. Uh on the basketball tick tip, uh uh uh Sacred Hoops by Phil Jackson is are are all three books that I recommend to read in terms of finding that way to connect and just be there. That's it. I got shit I gotta do today, but guess what, Joel? The only thing that matters right now is our conversation. There's no connection right here. There's no benefit. I can't I can't help or hurt what I have to do later today by thinking about it right now. Nothing I can do right in this moment that will help whatever I gotta do. Me thinking about picking up my kids right now is not gonna make me any more or less on time. You know what I'm saying? I just know that at some point I gotta do it, but why think about it? I got there's not you know what I you know when I get to think about it?

Joel 1:17:10

When I'm doing it. When you're doing it. In that in that moment. In that moment. Oh, that's beautiful. Um, yeah, I wrote that. Understand, understand the moment. He was the best at understanding what was needed. He was just so in the moment. He was just so in the moment. And it's like, that's something that I every time. Yeah, I want to take that one away too. I feel like that's a good one. I want to say thank you to Matt Isaacs. Thank you so much, Matt, for editing these episodes. Matt is a talented and kind member of the Atlanta improv community. If anyone out there has any audio editing or song mixing needs, please reach out to me at Joel at the joyoffimprov.com. I'll connect you with Matt and get you on your way to getting some clean, fresh audio. If you are enjoying the podcast and you want to support and keep this podcast going, you can support in one of two ways. You can leave a five-star review. And if you do, please leave an improv topic that you want us to discuss or perhaps a question for a future guest. Another way to support the podcast is to give a monetary contribution on our Ko-Fi page. Anything helps, a dollar, five dollars does not matter. Anything helps in keeping the podcast going. You can find the link to contribute in our Instagram or in the link in the episode description. Thank you so so much for listening. It means so much that you're here. See you next time and see.